SIA CARGO

[millerscourt]

remlap I will leave it to Bananas to tell you all about the bidding software setup!!

[Bokomoko]

Hi Bananas, just a curiosity...
Based on COP how many trips have you been flying as PIC on augmented crew?
Any criteria (seniority, etc.) to be designated captain doing F/O duties?
Does SIA Cargo use on a 3-pilot crew a captain and 2 "real" F/O?
In short, how does it work?
Thanks

[CARGOJOCK]

GUYS GALS HEAR ME HEAR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SQ CARGO IS NOT A VERY GOOD PLACE AT LEAST NOT RECOMMENDED, HOWEVER INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCES SHALL PREVAIL.

I AM IN THE SYSTEM SINCE THE START AND CANNOT MOVE DUE TO THE BOND.
ROUTES ARE GREAT BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS WAY TOO LOW.

MONTHLY AVERAGE FLYING 25-40 HOURS HIGHLY VARIABLE.THE MAINLINE BOYS GET THE PREMIUM FLIGHTS.
***FLYING ALLOWANCE(PRODUCTIVITY PFH IS S$55) THIS IS VERY SHORT AND HARD TO COME BY.

CARGO CREWS PAX A HELL OF A LOT AVERAGE 35-50 HOURS A MONTH(EG JFK-SIN/SIN-LAX/HKG-ANC/SIN-LHR).
I WISH THEY GAVE US FREQUENT FLYER MILES.

NO DISCOUNTED TRAVEL ONLY ID75.
THE TRAVEL AGENT IN TOWN IS CHEAPER AND YOUR SEAT IS CONFIRMED.

YOU ONLY GET ONE SET OF TICKETS FOR THE FAMILY ONCE A YEAR THATS IT.

THE BOND IS FOR S$142000 OF WHICH S$56000 HAS TO BE IN A BANK GUARANTEE. THE BANK CHARGES A COMMISSION OF 1-1.5% DEPENDING ON THE BANK.
BANK OF INDIA IS THE LOWEST COMMISION IS 0.5%.

HOUSING ALLOWANCE IS S$3000 PER MONTH YOU MAY GET A 3 BEDROOM 1700SQ FT,ON THE EAST COAST WHICH IS THE DESIRED LOCATION FOR MOST EXPATS FOR A FEW MORE HUNDRED DOLLARS EXTRA SAY S$ 3100-3800 HENCE YOU WILL HAVE TO POCKET WHAT IS MORE THAN S$3000.

SCHOOLING IS GREAT MOST OF THE EXPATS SEND THEIR KIDS TO UNITED WORLD COLLEGE (UWCSEA), FEES FOR A TERM(4 MONTHS) IS A S$6500-7800 HOWEVER YOU WILL BE PAID AT S$1400 PER MONTH PER CHILD MAX 2 KIDS.
HERETO YOU WILL HAVE TO POCKET S$1100-2100 ADDITIONAL PER KID DEPENDING ON THE CHILDS AGE.

LIVING COST EG:UTILITIES (ELECTRICITY/WATER/GAS/CABLE TV/FIXED TELEPHONE) WORKS OUR TO ABOUT S$1000PER MONTH. MOBILE COST NOT INCLUDED.

BOTTOM LINE:
IF THE CARGO CREWS ARE GIVEN EXTRA FLYING WITH A REDUCTION IN PAXING HOURS THEN YOU WILL HAVE ALLOWANCES AROUND S$4500-7000.
THEN THIS WOULD BE GREAT BUT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AND ALL OF US EXPECTED THIS WHEN WE JOINED.

ONCE YOU PUT YOUR SIGNATURE TO THE DOTTED LINE I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU DEFAULT.

CARGO 744 CREWS ARE TREATED AS THIRD CLASS STOCK.
FIRST CLASS ARE THE MAINLINE B744
SECOND CLASS ARE THE A345/B777

TAXATION WILL BE COVERED IN THE ISSUE.

[readufive]

2xbananas and cargojock......wow....big differences in opinion I guess.
Very informative posts....the "small words" really helped. I get picture....

Need to do some thinkin´lincoln!

Cargojock....is it really that bad? You seem to be in dire straights.... .

[BANANASBANANAS]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I agree with some of what cargo jock says but if I may, I would like to (quietly) disagree with the following:

1. Flying / Positioning hours. I have averaged over 50 flying hours per month since joining and less than 7 positioning hours per month.

2. Housing allowance. A bit of lateral thinking is required here. There are several ways of looking at it. You can commute and get a 2 bed unit for 1600$ per month and use the balance of the 3000 towards tickets. Or, you can bring your family over, rent out your house in your domicile and pay a small amount of your own money to rent somewhere nice. Or, you can purchase a condo and use the 3000 to pay the mortgage.

3. Utility bills. I had a pile waiting for me when I opened the door of OUR condo unit.

a. Combined Electricity, Gas, Water, + Taxes for March - $212.37
b. Cable TV (with nearly all the options) - $124.95
c. Mobile phone bill (self + wife) $143.78
d. Landline Phone bill - $43.00

Monthly bills including mobiles but excluding food + about $550.00

Rostering:

I have not gone to rostering with boxes of chocolates, nor have I asked for any specific trips. I am very happy with my rosters - but I like long haul of 12-16 days as it gives me max time off on return and it is more lucrative. Thats personal preference.


Augmented/Double/3 Pilot crew. If 2 Captains are rostered to fly, one will be nominated by the company as command crew. It seems to depend on who is doing the full COP and who is just "guesting" for that particular sector.

You can fly with 2 F/Os or another Captain and an F/O. It depends on the FTL requirements. See http://www.caas.gov.sg/caas/level3_e...=1143992899359 AOCRs appendix C1 if you want a nice long read.

As far as roster requests go, there is a mechanism thru which you can make requests but I have never done it so cant comment on the success rate.

Will be on leave and deep and silent for the next 3 weeks guys. Play nicely.

[Left Coaster]

What HE said...

Dbl Bananas has put it all there, with only few diffs for us it all adds up. Up to you how much to spend, all in all there seems to be two schools...there are those who are put off by changes, and those who flow with them and realise it's part of the business...what to do about it is another question. For me? Whatever "floats my boat" these days seems to work, I've been there done that when it comes to trying to figure out how a company works. Not enough of the big picture to see what happens and I only get a sore head when I try to figure out the way things are done. Just my two bits and I swear that by keeping out of the way at work, my home life is WAY better...
Be cool and enjoy...

[remlap]

Bananas X 2 is running deep and silent. While he is gone, could someone step up and explain the bidding/rostering system and possibilities. I am interested in length of trips, average days away from domicile, and bidding flexibility.

Thanks,

Remlap

I am interested in Captain's schedules.

[CARGOJOCK]

SQ CARGO ROSTERS

hi remlap

read my text.i have been in the system longer. the 744 fleet has all the senior SIA mainline lads. so theyhave to be served first. after they are dished out the premium flights we get the patterns were we log more frquent flyer miles than flying hours which in TURN IS LOSS OF THE PRODUCTIVITY AT S$55 PFH.

WE CARGO LADS GET ZILCH FOR PAXING THATS WHY THEY SEND US AROUND THE WORLD FOR FREE.
DO NOT BE MISLED BY BANANASBANAS he either provides gifts to the rostering ladies thats right ladies do our rosters. please see his earlier email he mentions that he does not provide choclates how come he thought of that if he has never done so....human error wake you all!!!!

the cargo fleet is great with super routes but as i have mentioned during the life of this thread the patterns we get is absolutely crazy.the priority of productive flights are given to the SIA mainline boys we cargo lads get the scraps,and the beauty is everybody blames the rostering program. a general cargo roster would have you doing example:

SIN-LHR on SQ then hop a ride on BA to BRU, stay two days and
you operate BRU-KWI.
next day PAX KWI-DXB on kuwait airways.
next day PAX DXB-SIN on SIA

YOU FLY AN AVERAGE OF 25-40 hrs a month

AND YOU PAX AVERAGE 35-50 hrs a month

BANANAS IS OUT OF THE ORDINARY I GUESS SOME GUYS ARE BLUE EYED BOYS OF ROSTERING.WONDER HOW???????????????

[Fogrunner]

Originally Posted by remlap

Bananas X 2 is running deep and silent. While he is gone, could someone step up and explain the bidding/rostering system and possibilities. I am interested in length of trips, average days away from domicile, and bidding flexibility.
Thanks,
Remlap
I am interested in Captain's schedules.

Phil Squares should be able to help you out with an overview of Captains' rostering. I have found him very helpful and accommodating.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Cargo Jock

Your attitude explains a lot.

Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour and ask why you appear to be so bitter before you anonymously and falsely criticise others who are content with their lot

If you would like to make a specific allegation I will be delighted to identify myself by PM (assuming you have the intestinal fortitude to do the same) and we can then book ourselves a joint interview with the fleet office where you will have the opportunity to justify or apologise for your slander.

Right! Suitcase packed and the holiday has just started.

[ffodekcuf]

SIA Cargo Information

To those with further questions re SQ Cargo, here are some home truths about the whole deal, I do not know where Bananas is coming from or who his friends are in rostering, but he seems to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to not only hours flown, but also hours done more often than not in the back of an SQ777/744, to position for or after a COP.

1) The BOND!

For F/O's it is S$51000, which forms the bank gaurantee part of the deal, whilst the total bond including this amount is S$129000 for five years after your date of confirmation, the pro rata reduction begins only after TWO YEARS from this date. However be aware that there are charges to lodge this money with a local bank, and you get a grand total of 0.7% interest, which is less over the five years than the cost of the gaurantee in the first place. Also the money has devalued some what, and in little over a year, I have lost 14% of the value from the currency that I converted to pay the thing. You may lodge the gaurantee in Foreign Currency, but at a premium of 20% over the base amount, but you get the full amount you put in back. Generally the gaurantee is a lose lose situation!

2) The FLYING!

Below are my hours since Janurary 2005 :

I did 567hrs for 2005, averaging 47:15, and so far this year I have averaged 41:06, not great in terms of earning potential. The only leave I had in this period was in April. The August figures are true, 11:06, that is all the flying I did, the rest was 67 hours of positioning!! I am lead to believe that our productivity will increase but as yet have seen no evidence of it. PF and PNF sectors are pretty evenly spread, although Feb and Mar 06 have not been good months, I only did one PF sector in each, this however is unusual. (I am sorry, I tried to insert a spreadsheat with more valid information, but it will not come out as one, only a long line of figures).

Positioning in the cargo fleet is a fact of life, so be prepared for it and make the most of it, get yourself into a "zone" for each trip, and enjoy the great inflight entertainment and service, SQ's economy class is as good as a lot of other airlines business classes, so be positive about it and don't let it get you down. They try at all costs to put you in the front but if they are full then in the back you go. When you think of the annual bonus you get from the airline, it makes it a bit more bearable.

3) The TRAVEL BENEFITS!

Basically NONE! Cargo pilots get only one set of "homebase" tickets a year, i.e. only to your home town or nearest on the SQ network, we cannot take our families once a year to any other destination, so do not think of showing your kids some of the world whilst you are here! We are also allowed ID75 tickets but these are useless, as you can get much cheaper and CONFIRMED tickets on the net from other airlines and even SQ itself. So make sure you indicate when you sign up, where you want your homebase to be as once you are signed on it CANNOT be changed. As a matter of interest mainline guys get an annual free anywhere they want on the network, 4 ID90's, and unlimited ID85's per annum. Also be advised SQ have NO interline agreements of use to us, inlcuding with fellow members of the Star Alliance.

4) The ROSTERING!

So far the rosters this year have been very stable and uninterrupted, which is great, however expect disruptions over Xmas and Chinese New Year as flight schedules are often changed or cancelled. We do not have a formal bidding system per se, but rostering will accept requests, for a particular flight or COP, three months before you want it and they are usually very good at accomadating ones requests, as long as they are fairly reasonable ones. However be aware that the flights we get are the ones that remain after the mainline guys have had their crack at the decent ones.

5) The LIVING!

Rents in Singapore are generally reasonable, and there is a great range of accomadation availabe to suit all requirements. Food and booze are quiet expensive, but not excessive. Schooling is only paid for children resident in Singpaore, unlike the mainline guys whose kids fees are paid for wherever they are in the world. Utility costs etc have been discussd by other guys in this thread. Cell phones and charges are quiet expensive in world terms. Mainline guys get paid for transport to and from the airport,between certain hours, we do not, except for trips to the sim! So depending on where you live on the island, this can be quiet an expense in itself, living on the east coast puts you closer to the airport. On SQ ID75 tickets Capts can upgrade to business class but F/O's cannot! When all is said and done there are far worse places to be in the East than Singapore, speak to guys from Asiana and Vietnam airlines.

5) The TRAINING!

Like all airlines the sim training all depends on who you get for the course, I had a fantastic old guy who was a real gentleman, and taught us a great deal. Likewise the line training was generally great and relaxed for the most part, however for both be well prepared and know your stuff, it will make your life much easier, as with most things in life! Some guys like me have had a really good training experience, whilst others have had a less than pleasant time, it is just the luck of the draw, but from my experience most of the instructors and trainers are good guys and on your side.

The above in a nutshell is my experience so far, in 15 months with SIA Cargo, if you are aware of the things above and are prepared to put up with them then this is a good job overall. The aircraft are all new and well maintained, and there are some really good destinations as well. Be carefull when weighing up the pro's and con's, and once you have made your decision then live with it!

Good Luck!

[Warden777]

Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS

Cargo Jock
Your attitude explains a lot.
Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour and ask why you appear to be so bitter before you anonymously and falsely criticise others who are content with their lot
If you would like to make a specific allegation I will be delighted to identify myself by PM (assuming you have the intestinal fortitude to do the same) and we can then book ourselves a joint interview with the fleet office where you will have the opportunity to justify or apologise for your slander.
Right! Suitcase packed and the holiday has just started.

Hi
I'd like to say that bananas X2 is a very lucky, lucky man!!!!!!!!!!!!
My opinion is like Cargo Jock. Paxing 40 - 60 h, ops 20-40 h, unstable roster,

[BANANASBANANAS]

OK, Final post before the PC gets shut down for a couple of weeks. Maybe I am lucky. maybe you are not. We can each only call it as we see it.

However, if I was one of the "unlucky" ones I would take my grievance to the fleet office and politely put forward my point of view. If I still did not get satisfaction I would take my case a step higher.

What I would not do is accuse my colleagues of corruption just because they happened to like their roster. It is an insult to the individual for accusing him of such behaviour and an insult to rostering for implying that they are open to such bribery.

If you dont like it, either change it or leave.

If you dont like it and you can't change it or leave, then make the best of it.

We are all supposed to be on the same side here chaps.

Attacking colleagues who are happy doing their job (as published by rostering without inducements) does nothing for anyone.

My roster for May has 2 long USA patterns on it. I didn't ask for them and other people might not want to be away so long. I do and I remain happy. If you are not happy may I respectfully suggest that you put your grievance in writing and send it to the Fleet Office. They might be able to help you. I can't.

[Phil Squares]

Generally speaking, my roster has been fairly stable. Flying about 55 hours/month, with perhaps 8-10 hours/month on average. No paxing in April, DXB-SIN in May and BRU-LHR-SIN in June.

As for "bidding system", there isn't one. As has been pointed out, Cargo tends to get the "leftovers". The SYD/LHR based get the most productive COPs with the 744 pax fleet getting their pick after that.

It really depends on your outlook if Cargo is good for you. Personally, I don't want to fly 80 hours/month. I enjoy being off 12-14 days/month. I, don't want multiple legs/day, as it is the SIN-MFM-ICN day is a killer.

Travel benefits suck...but I knew that when I joined. The only thing I object to was the change for the home base ticket. It used to be good system wide, but the last contract change about a year ago changed that. We do have unlimited ID75 with other airlines, but it's expensive and SA. A confirmed ticket is worth it and cheaper. At a previous airline, we had ID 90 agreements and ZED fares, but it's all SA. If you went to get someplace, having a confirmed seat is the way to go.

If anyone wants more info PM me.

Cheers

[CARGOJOCK]

SORRY TO BANANASBANANS & MORE INFO ON SQ CARGO

i received a pm from bananasbananas that he was offended with my post.

hence as this is a forum of professionals i extend my regret at having hurt his personal feelings.

SORRY MATE.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT FOR THE REST OF YOU GUYS WHAT I HAVE MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD IS THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

DO NOTE THAT I AM GENERALLY HAPPY HERE IN SINGAPORE/SQ CARGO THE ONLY HITCH IS THE WORKING ROSTER. PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER ME NEGATIVE.

I AM A PILOT AND OUR PRODUCTIVITY IS BASED ON FLYING AND NOT ON PAXING.

I TOO EXPECTED TO RECEIVE AN MONTHLY ALLOWANCES IN THE S$7000 RANGE AS ADVERTISED. BUT I AM IN THE SYSTEM AND MANY OF THE CARGO LADS ARE EXPERIENCING THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE.

ALSO DO NOT FORGET THERE MAYBE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE FOR A FEW HOW THEY DO IT IS ANYBODIES GUESS.

TRAVEL PRIVILEDGES ARE ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE SET FIRM TO THE HOME BASE AND BACK THATS IT.
THE REST IS ID75 BUT DOWNTOWN IS CHEAPER AND CONFIRMED TRAVEL.

TAXATION
1.THE FINANCIAL YEAR IS FROM 1 JAN -31 DEC OF A CALANDER YEAR.

2.YOUR FIRST TAXABLE RATE WHEN YOU START FOR THE FIRST FINANCIAL YEAR IS A FLAT RATE OF 15%

3.THEREAFTER YOUR TAX RATE IS 18%

4.YOUR TAXABLE INCOME INCLUDES GROSS SALARY/HOUSING ALLOWANCE/FLYING ALLAWANCE TOO

5.RENTS ARE NOT TAX DEDUCTABLE

6.EXPENSES IN THE COURSE OF EMPLOYMENT AND NOT REFUNDED BY THE COMPANY IS TAX DEDUCTABLE.
EG:TRAVELLING EXPENSES etc

[BANANASBANANAS]

Just a quick addendum to my last post. While CJ was kindly apologising for thinking I had shares in Cadburys I was PMing him to say thanks for the private apology he also extended.

I think we have established now that the only person I buy chocolates for is my wife!

As a general point I would suggest that its always easy to assume that the grass on the next guys roster is a bit greener than yours.

My first "solo" sector was 13 hours pax on a 777 to AMS, min rest then operate back to SIN with Phil Squares but I didn't mind that at all.

We are all on the same side here chaps.

[William73]

YES OR NO...

THANKS DEARs,

i am about to join SIA CARGO.Big decision in my life.It is a little scaring,when i do read some comments.Hopefully it does not look worst than the company i am working for at this time.Try for once a well known low cost airline,based somewhere out in LTN.

-Average block hours per months 85.
-Average duty time per day 10 hours.
-4 sectors a day.
-transit time average 30 minutes.
-block days average 5 in a row.Used to be 6.

When you land at 11pm,you are back home at 0000am.Then one hour to relax.Go to sleep.Wake up at 0900am,back on the road at around 0100pm.5 days in row.I may assure you that your first off day,when you wake up,you look like s... and then comes the rest of your private life.Hopefully you have kids and wife,and try to find some friends around.

Last but not the least,try this new plogs. GVA-DSA(Doncaster)-GVA then GVA-LIS-GVA.Planned duty time 11h35,providing that the french do not go on strike,or that there is no bags identifications.

I am looking forward to my new job.And looking forward to paxing,while someone else is driving me.Money is not everything...

Bye.

[F Dolarhyde]

Taxation in Singapore

Hello Cargojock (and all aspiring SIA Cargo pilots)!
Haven't you heard about the NOR scheme?
Not Ordinary Resident which allow anyone with more than 90 days away from SIN in a year (easily achieved for a cargopilot...) to get deduction of personal tax down to 10%.
Total salary (everything included) from company last year was about 225000 SGD (didn't work the full year). Income reported to IRAS 205.000 SGD (don't ask me how they calculate this).
With wife, two children and NOR applied my total tax ends up with 20.500 SGD.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit...1.1.14+nor.asp
Regards,

[F Dolarhyde]

Having browsed through IRAS website I can see what Cargojock is refering to. He assumes that we are Non residents. Well, that's not correct.
"What is meant by a Resident Individual?
A Singapore citizen is a tax resident in Singapore if he normally resides in Singapore except for temporary absences that are consistent with the claim to be a resident.
A foreigner will be regarded as resident in Singapore if he was physically present or exercising an employment in Singapore for 183 days or more during the year preceding the year of assessment in a capacity other than that of a director of a company."
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit...-residents.asp
So, as employed by SIA Cargo you are considered a resident for tax purposes and thus can apply the NOR scheme.
Even if you wouldn't apply for the NOR scheme the taxes are reasonable. Per diem is not taxed but everything else.
As a captain you make about 250.000 a year. Deduct the per diem (30.000) and you are taxed for 220.000.
On the first 160.000 you pay 16.050 and on the next 70.000 you pay 18%. 16.050+12.600=28.650 which is not more than 11.5 % of the total package.
You can make your own calculations:
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit...ndividuals.asp
Regards,

[readufive]

Hello guys....very interesting posts. I still think the the positive´s outweigh the negative´s. SIAcargo seems like a very decent outfit !

Phil squares, 2xbananas, cargojock...others....keep the posts comin´ Especially info from a few FO´s would be cool ........

Lets not forget that ultimately it is yourself who signs the contract.

Just had my interview delayed a bit......