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SIA CARGO

Old 28th Apr 2007, 04:03
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With respect to the last two posts and from my personal point of view - The Airline Pilots Association Singapore (ALPA-S) is comprised of a professional membership, that has no desire to publicly bad mouth the Company for which they work; historically ALPA-S has always avoided 'washing it's dirty laundry' in public. Instead, the membership body has always self lamented and consoled - there are various avenues to achieve this such as in house publications, dedicated on-line means and approved organised meetings.

Although the media may appear biased, in many of it's publications and reports, of the recent arbitration events - anyone with an ounce of common sense and a modicum of knowledge about commercial airline operations would be able to see the flaws and weak arguments delivered by the SIA Management representation at the Court.

PPRUNE is an excellent medium for exchange of views, ideas and information - however, it is not the ' be all and end all ' - just because comments about the recent arbitration events at SIA are not visible or aired on PRUNE, doesn't mean they don't exist; try trawling some other Forum sites and you will see what I mean.

I sincerely hope the dispute between SIA and ALPA-S ends with a mutually agreed compromise; should the Courts intervene with a decission - so be it. Let's wait and see how this one pans out - it's not the first and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last.
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 05:11
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my comment was, in no way, directed toward ALPA-S. It was a general observation on how things operate in Sing - as for battling this out in the newpaper, the 1st and 2nd ammendments only apply in the US so that's that
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 06:32
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IAC A380 Dispute

Quote: The Airline Pilots Association Singapore (ALPA-S) is comprised of a professional membership, that has no desire to publicly bad mouth the Company for which they work; historically ALPA-S has always avoided 'washing it's dirty laundry' in public

Well said...this is the kind of sensible, objective presentations we expect on this forum.
Well said.
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 11:58
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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Mentor Minister

Well you would say that wouldn't you as in your position as MM,SM and PM you have allowed no real negotiations in the past and during the last big dispute a few years back you used your tame General to threaten us all with the 2+ years back pay being cancelled if Alpha-S continued to obstruct. One only has to look at what you did to that Malaysian Captain in Alpha-S when you removed his PR status and he was out of a job.
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 12:34
  #465 (permalink)  
 
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Referance To Mainline Rats

highlander 744,

yes i still refer to you lot as mainline rats no regrets. but if you care to notice it is in a a selective forum not in a civil court house with many media bloke around.

your buff that representative of the SIA management the "ting" fellow flys with his "finger tips", we all do but certainly not in the flight deck. what relevance has the finger tip flying got to with a pay dispute.

so much for a softnening TC from the VP FLT OPS.

i guess all you fellows will run to MM for help, i like to see what will happen when this fella is no more............... i guess now you will have to use your toes instead of your fingers.
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 13:42
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something about rostering

why does one get 10 standby duties almost in a straight row. is this normal before/after our fine tuning of cop and roster
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 14:12
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Well Newfreighter, judging by your advertised PPRUNE age (70 ) maybe you should be grateful for the rest.

It's frustrating, I know, to get long blocks of SBY - but as you know it is somewhat ' nature of the beast '. You have to take the rough with the smooth; but if it becomes too often or peculiar to only you, then I suggest you approach your Rostering Officer first, then your Manager; if still no joy - try your Branch Membership Rep at the Association, if you are a member.

At very least I hope your Manager(s) read PPRUNE; and I hope you either get a SBY 'call-up' or you are able to make productive use of the time - either way stay happy bro' .
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Old 28th Apr 2007, 18:33
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KK,
I wasn't so much thinking of directly taking SIA to task but more in the nature of a good rant to let off steam in the pages of PPRune. I mean, let's face it, that was an outrageous comment by SIA management - absolutely beyond the pale.
Rockhound
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Old 29th Apr 2007, 00:50
  #469 (permalink)  
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CJ- If you knew anything of the history between SIA pilots and LKY, (MM) you would never say such silly things as this:


"i guess all you fellows will run to MM for help, i like to see what will happen when this fella is no more............... i guess now you will have to use your toes instead of your fingers."

I realise times have changed but in the days before SIAC it was normal to get two blocks of 12 to 15 days SBY per year on the -400, often used for KL turnrounds Fridays and Sundays and any crap trips that someone went sick on! The main drawback was getting called out for a rubbish trip a day or so before the block ended so that the good trip straight after SBY was passed to someone else!
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Old 29th Apr 2007, 13:29
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KK CHECK YOUR PMs, THANKS
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Old 29th Apr 2007, 14:16
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New frtr

New Freighter.
You are supposed to have one block of approx 12-15 days per year assigned. Pls PM me and I can head you in the right direction. If you work for SIA Cargo that is.
Cheers
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 04:31
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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block standby duties

rosters
thanks all. my coming month roster shows that i have block of 10 consecutive standby duties i.e. 5 stbys followed by 2 days unindicated then 4 stbys followed by 2 days unindicated, then finished with the last stby. from all the gentlemen replied I guess block standby duies are normal.

seats during paxing
if our bosses or managers are reading this, may I just suggest that when we are on paxing duties and have to be allocated an economy class seat, can the company at least try to assign us an aisle seat or an emergency exit seat instead of a middle seat? is quite stressful to be seated in the middle seat of the economy class especially on frequent paxing duties.

also in time of emergency when seated on the row of emergency doors,i think we can best assist the operating crew in maning the emergency exits, flow control, liferaft inflation, fire fighting etc.
can the company implement this?

p.s. on the personal side, this also take off a bit of stress from the crew. any comment?
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 21:47
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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The thruth! A WARNING!

This is directed to the people thinking about joining SIA Cargo. As a general warning.

Do not believe everything you hear on the interview. SQ CARGO will lie straight to your face to get your signature on the contract. As soon as they have it, they know you are stuck for 5 and a half year.

This will be a whole book if I were to mention everything, but let me put down a few points that I KNOW is important for your wellbeeing and life quality.

1: Roster - As previously mentioned in the thread, the roster is to say the least, unstable. You could find yourself being changed on to a flight on short notice, and your vacation could be revoked. Example. I got 2 days flying in the middle of my 2 week vacation!

2: Away time, you are an average of at least 17 days away from SIN a month. You need to report if you are leaving the island. And you rarely have more than 4 days off consecutive. (Remember that if you DO go to Phuket for a 4 day, they could call you after 2 and tell you they need you on a flight to AKL tomorrow......

3: Upgrades if you are a FO. I was told in the interview that with my experience (At time of employment in SQ cargo I had more than the requirements for direct entry. However when I applied they did not take non widebody Capt. as direct entry. When I JOINED they did) I was then told that with my experience I was looking at VERY short time to command. In a later meeting with the Dept. Chief he told me NOONE got upgraded on Expat Terms and I would have to go MINIMUM 5 years on LOCAL terms (I.E. no housing allowance etc.) to be ELIGABLE for upgrade!!! So an obvious LIE when I signed the contract.

4: SQ Cargo do whatever they like with pay and roster because they KNOW you are stuck. Example: We were sent to KL for sim training for 16 days. According to information letter sent to us when going to KL they would pay out of base allowance according to RANK and STATUS. When we returned to SIN we got 1/4 of the allowance in our contracts. They then argued that the amount in our contract was when on a COP (Crew Operating Pattern, eg. flying) The amount we were paid was a OFFICE STAFF out of base allowance.... So I guess in SQ eyes the RANK AND STATUS when we were in the SIM in KL was Office staff!!!!!!!! Well shows you how they are..... When they in addition argued over a BOOKING FEE of 1 SGD on my taxi receipt. I kind of had enough!

5: For anyone joining as FO's. Ask in the thred how many sectors a month they do as PILOT FLYING. I know for a fact that some FO's have been VERY close to running out of currency (E.g. THREE MONTHS withouth being pilot flying)!!!!!!!!

6: Ask yourself how much fun it is to sit in Economy class to AMS, then 3 days STBY in AMS, then fly as PM to NYC, sit there 3 days on STBY, fly as PM back to AMS, sit there 3 days STBY, then fly Economy class BACK to SIN.......... 777 to europe, business is full most times, you are stuck in MIDDLE seat because they dont even CARE to reserve a Emergency Exit for you.

In addition to this, having to deal with the trainers that are so full of themselves (Exept for a few nice expats), rudeness, and lies!!!!

There are better jobs out there. And the only reason that HALF the SQ Cargo pilots have not already left is:

a) They are waiting for the bonus in June/July.
b) The monster bond.

It is quite sad that this is the reason people stay in a job... It should be happiness and proudness of their job and employer....
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Old 1st May 2007, 03:02
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to hear of your unhappiness torallin.

I agree to an extent with some of what you have written, but not all, as follows:

1. Rosters are, indeed, unstable but there is no way you should have to fly in the middle of 2 weeks holiday. It should not even be asked of you. STG?

2. 17 days a month out of Singapore is necessary to get remotely close to the advertised allowances. As far as letting management know that you will be out of SIN on off days, well, send them one email as a kind of "standing order."

3. Upgrades. Fair point. Totally agree with you.

4. KUL allowances. It's not too late to raise the issue with ALPA S. It does sound like you have been shafted.

5. F/O PF sectors. I sit in the LHS but my last COP was 5 sectors and the F/O got 3 of them.

6. EY paxing. Yes, it's a pain in the backside but it goes with the job. STC are doing what they can. My next (6 day) COP has me paxing 2 sectors and GT of nearly 3 hours.

7. Trainers. I guess I was lucky. Thats really all I can say.

8. Leaving? Remember, Bank guarantee + 5 months profit share = resignation possible after < 2 years service.

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Old 1st May 2007, 03:13
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Senor Torallin

Cargo Jock? That you?
But seriously, if you believe you have a legit gripe, PM me...I'll look at it and send it along if I can...
Thanks dubble B...
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Old 1st May 2007, 03:36
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Case Of Mistaken Identity

hey lads,

i am myself and not senor torralin or another alias.

torralin his response is correct.

WE CARGO LADS ARE "OFFICE STAFF" AT THEIR CONVENIENCE AND TREATED AS SOME JUNK THAT THEY CAN SHOVEL AT THEIR WILL. THATS WHY WE ARE NOT PAID TRANSPORT ALLOWANCES.

ROSTERS ARE A MESS.THEY START OFF WITH 70-80 HOURS BUT THEN AFTER THE CANCELLING YOU WILL GET ONLY ABOUT 30-40. Oh paxing that is there 30-40 hours in EY. build on frwquent flying.

LEAVE SLOTS can be changed and until you actually go on your leave one is not sure. they will adjust the slot and make you change many of your holiday plans and you may loose a few days too. they dislike to see lads have a decent slot to actually have a family vacation so cut and chop.
SIA MAYBE A WORLD CLASS AIRLINE AND HATS OFF TO THEM, BUT THEIR MAN MANAGEMENT IS ABSOULUTELY DISGUSTING.

1. BONUS
2. BOND

this is what is keeping many from leaving.

FO's they will trick you to change to "LOCAL TERMS" and offer you command "DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION" you will regret it and i am repeating it so that all you FO's will see it.
on local terms no HOUSING -S$3000 and KID education allowance s$ 1400 PER KID FOR 2 kids only will not be payable on LOCAL TERMS.

many guys that are applying are narrowbody experienced blokes looking for widebody experience.
BUT the guys who joined in with WIDEBODY will NOT REMAIN and will leave at the first available opportunity. these guys joined just to fly the 747. and it was passion for flying.

many guys try to confuse readers but sadly SIA CARGO is a dissapointed and not a professional outfit that we conceptualise with the SIA SERVICE KNOWN WORLD OVER.
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Old 1st May 2007, 03:37
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paxing

is it true that some stations especially ICN and MEL rather upgrade economy class passengers to business class for free in a full load situation and throw the paxing crew to economy?

if yes, can the stations legally do that as our contract states when on paxing duty and flying time of more than 3/4 hrs and "if available" we are entitled to be upgraded to business class?

my question is this free upgrade of economy class passengers has priority over our contract entitlement?

dont mistaken, i dont mind economy class but i just want to know and protect my rights as per the contract, also to pled the company at least assign us an emergency exit/aisle seat during paxing duty in a full load situation.

thanks
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Old 1st May 2007, 05:37
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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Mainline Paxing

These, and other issues, will need dealing with as we supposedly become an independent airline. Can you blame mainline for upgrading their own EY pax ahead of paxing third party airline (for that is what we will be) crew?

What is needed is some seriously hard nosed negotiations between some senior cargo management with no affiliation to mainline (I can think of only one person here) and mainline management to establish that paxing cargo crew are upgraded ahead of regular mainline pax.

A certain amount of intestinal fortitude and testiculation will be required to achieve this and it is not fair to expect one person to deliver this on his own. The sooner we are managed entirely by guys on SIA Cargo contracts the better. Until then, my contract says upgradeable if space available and that is what I make sure I get.

Of course, once we are an independent airline it becomes easier as we will pax mainline as ticketed business class pax on all sectors over 3 hours.....won't we? Or maybe EK or BA or another carrier can provide a better option
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Old 1st May 2007, 11:46
  #479 (permalink)  
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BANANAS is right you really do need to get the paxing formalised into a written agreement.
Sadly MEL has always been a problem, in my day due largely to one person in Traffic who could not disguise his dislike of crew, he may still be there!
Suggest you keep an accurate record of who gets upgraded and when, the IFS gets a copy of a message that shows all this, including Silver Kris members who have been upgraded but the ones you need to know about are the ones labelled 'Involuntary upgrade' - that means they have no entitlement and have been upgraded to create space in economy, this should only happen after entitled Staff have been upgraded, you really need to check with the IFS each time and keep records.
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Old 1st May 2007, 15:34
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Vote with your feet.............Paxing in economy????????? you must be kidding.

It's things like this that remind me how lucky we are in CX.

Good luck.
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