PAL Pilot Exodus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: manila
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Brown Out Is On
Philippine Airlines, The Brown Out is On.
1. Do not fly direct routing
2. Do not take intersection take offs
3. Fly the published instrument approach. No visual approaches
4. No deferment of writing of aircraft discrepancies into logbook.
I have only talked to a few pilots and will be getting more aboard.
1. Do not fly direct routing
2. Do not take intersection take offs
3. Fly the published instrument approach. No visual approaches
4. No deferment of writing of aircraft discrepancies into logbook.
I have only talked to a few pilots and will be getting more aboard.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 21st Mar 2006 at 08:13. Reason: changed format
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Between land masses
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. No requests for direct routing - Fly the full SID. If ATC offer track shortening or radar vectoring, advise them "Request follow SID", "Request fly via flight plan routing".
Reason:- Track shortening does not give you the guaranteed min obst clearances that the surveyed, published routes do. ie. Safety.
2. No intersection take off - Intersection take-offs reduce the amount of runway length available for the t/o run, and the amount available in the event of a rejected t/off. They also increase the amount of noise produced over the departure path. An intersection take-off will require re-calculation of the take-off performance data, so they may be acceptable, but will delay take-off/pushback, until the new figures have been calculated and checked by ALL crew members.
3. Fly the full published instrument approach. Do not request visual approaches - First part (SID) discussed in #1. Visual approaches frequently lead to undershoot/overshoot situations, which may necessitate a go-around, rather than persisting with an unstable/destabilised approach. An extended downwind is the usual method of ensuring that a pilot won't end up high on finals, however this may result in higher fuel burns, due to operating the aircraft at low level in a high drag config (eg. Gear down & ldg fl ext.).
4. No deferment of writing of aircraft discrepancies into logbook. - Absolutely! You compromise the SAFETY of all on board by not IMMEDIATELY reporting all defects. Carrying one unnotifed defect may result in a serious situation should another defect arise that compounds the problem.
Our voices must resonate through all the media for the world to know the suppression of the Pinoy (Filipinos) by the corrupted wealthy few.
The print media will reach out to our local people, but by media that grabs worldwide audiences, such as this PPRuNe and others, we can spread the truth quickly in a short time. I also suggest letting your sympathies be aired here Give Filipino pilots their wings so that Tan and the ATO know that not only the Philippines, but all the World is aware of their illegal actions.
Reason:- Track shortening does not give you the guaranteed min obst clearances that the surveyed, published routes do. ie. Safety.
2. No intersection take off - Intersection take-offs reduce the amount of runway length available for the t/o run, and the amount available in the event of a rejected t/off. They also increase the amount of noise produced over the departure path. An intersection take-off will require re-calculation of the take-off performance data, so they may be acceptable, but will delay take-off/pushback, until the new figures have been calculated and checked by ALL crew members.
3. Fly the full published instrument approach. Do not request visual approaches - First part (SID) discussed in #1. Visual approaches frequently lead to undershoot/overshoot situations, which may necessitate a go-around, rather than persisting with an unstable/destabilised approach. An extended downwind is the usual method of ensuring that a pilot won't end up high on finals, however this may result in higher fuel burns, due to operating the aircraft at low level in a high drag config (eg. Gear down & ldg fl ext.).
4. No deferment of writing of aircraft discrepancies into logbook. - Absolutely! You compromise the SAFETY of all on board by not IMMEDIATELY reporting all defects. Carrying one unnotifed defect may result in a serious situation should another defect arise that compounds the problem.
Our voices must resonate through all the media for the world to know the suppression of the Pinoy (Filipinos) by the corrupted wealthy few.
The print media will reach out to our local people, but by media that grabs worldwide audiences, such as this PPRuNe and others, we can spread the truth quickly in a short time. I also suggest letting your sympathies be aired here Give Filipino pilots their wings so that Tan and the ATO know that not only the Philippines, but all the World is aware of their illegal actions.
Last edited by Foreign Worker; 21st Mar 2006 at 10:50.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: somewhereoutthere
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bautista said a captain with PAL can gross a salary of between US$4,000 and US$7,000 a month.
"By local standards at least this is a very good salary but how can you match competitors, especially those in the Middle East and India, paying double and tax free. Here, our pilots are taxed at 32 per cent," he said.
EY777? Isn't this the Two letter code for ETIHAD?
"By local standards at least this is a very good salary but how can you match competitors, especially those in the Middle East and India, paying double and tax free. Here, our pilots are taxed at 32 per cent," he said.
EY777? Isn't this the Two letter code for ETIHAD?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Quezon City
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Liars! Liars! Liars!
Mr. Bautista, where did you get your figures that senior pilots receive $4,000-$7,000? Wake up, this is 2006! The current rate is 1US$ = 52.xx. And please dont make it appear that Mr. Tan bought $1.5million worth of training planes for a noble cause. Its business! you said it yourself, PAL Av School wants to produce about 50 ab initio pilots a year, thus, at P1.9 million per student = P95million. So the investment of $1.5million(P78million) makes good sense. Its a business strategy & not a noble cause as you claim that Mr. Tan has done so much for Phil Aviation. You want a noble cause? Bring back the scholarship in Av School.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: here and there
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Media Mileage????
Dont even think of doing the "media mileage" with Philippine Star. Have you noticed how biased thay are? It is always tha management side that they are reporting. Why? Look who is the editor of Phil Star and also look who is the editor of Mabuhay Magazine. Coincidence?
Do you know how they got the $4000 & $7000 figures? They included the trip pass (which we have to literally beg for boarding passes if ever we use these tickets), id tickets, medical benefits, retirement (which we still cant see a black and white of it), meal chits, shuttle boys, uniroms, per diems, productivity. But I tried to add them all up, it still cant reach $4000 or $7000!!!!
Do you know how they got the $4000 & $7000 figures? They included the trip pass (which we have to literally beg for boarding passes if ever we use these tickets), id tickets, medical benefits, retirement (which we still cant see a black and white of it), meal chits, shuttle boys, uniroms, per diems, productivity. But I tried to add them all up, it still cant reach $4000 or $7000!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Korek!
Originally Posted by kontra
Dont even think of doing the "media mileage" with Philippine Star....
Do you know how they got the $4000 & $7000 figures? They included the trip pass....
Do you know how they got the $4000 & $7000 figures? They included the trip pass....
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: bored somewhere.
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmmmmm..
for the breakdown of your half a million peso monthly salary, please drop by:
TIME: 430pm
Friday, 24 March 2006
3rd Floor Flt. Ops Bldg.
Philippine Airlines
Gate 1, MBC
Andrews Ave., Pasay City
TIME: 430pm
Friday, 24 March 2006
3rd Floor Flt. Ops Bldg.
Philippine Airlines
Gate 1, MBC
Andrews Ave., Pasay City
Last edited by bisaya; 23rd Mar 2006 at 05:10.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shoreline
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And what about the news that a senior management pilot who opted to retire last year after doing 20 years continuous service, got only PhP5,000.00 (about $98.00 at present rates) for every year of service. He got only that because upper management learned that he will be transferring to Asiana to be an instructor pilot there. Maybe that's the reason why they never came out with the black and white on the retirement plan, because there isn't any!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MANILA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok julie.will advice them.
Originally Posted by Julie Andrews
r2d2,
Our names are on that infamous list, remember?
batuts,
If Lucio's and Lilybeth's minions are able to monitor Pprune, why can't Winnie Monsod and the rest of Philippine media? Get my drift?
While you're at it, spread the word to the Cabin Crew as well. If Pprune is the only available avenue where muzzled voices can be heard, so be it.
Judging by the complexion of that Manila Times editorial, at least it can be said that the media, by and large, is on the pilots' side.
Our names are on that infamous list, remember?
batuts,
If Lucio's and Lilybeth's minions are able to monitor Pprune, why can't Winnie Monsod and the rest of Philippine media? Get my drift?
While you're at it, spread the word to the Cabin Crew as well. If Pprune is the only available avenue where muzzled voices can be heard, so be it.
Judging by the complexion of that Manila Times editorial, at least it can be said that the media, by and large, is on the pilots' side.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Another Reality!!
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bisaya
for the breakdown of your half a million peso monthly salary, please drop by:
TIME: 430pm
Friday, 24 March 2006
3rd Floor Flt. Ops Bldg.
Philippine Airlines
Gate 1, MBC
Andrews Ave., Pasay City
TIME: 430pm
Friday, 24 March 2006
3rd Floor Flt. Ops Bldg.
Philippine Airlines
Gate 1, MBC
Andrews Ave., Pasay City
what happened with the meeting? Has LT stopped the exodus by giving you AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE??
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: bored somewhere.
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by planestupid
So guys,
what happened with the meeting? Has LT stopped the exodus by giving you AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE??
what happened with the meeting? Has LT stopped the exodus by giving you AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE??
you guys love peanuts? i dont..
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: bored somewhere.
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Passion For Reason.
Passion For Reason :
Why restrict the overseas Filipino professional?
First posted 03:07am (Mla time) Mar 24, 2006
By Raul Pangalangan
Inquirer
Editor's Note: Published on Page A12 of the March 24, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
“REGULATE the exodus of skills and talents! Keep the best and the brightest at home!” screamed the banner of a full-page, paid ad that appeared in the Inquirer the other day.
That call was issued by a group calling itself the Fair Trade Alliance (FTA). It asks that we regulate the migration of Filipino professionals and highly skilled workers.
I share their concerns, but not their conclusion. You can only control people’s dreams at your own peril. Fair trade means that traders must be free to compete in the open market, and workers should be just as free to seek the highest value for their labor, locally or abroad. What is sauce for the capitalist goose should be sauce for the proletarian gander, even those whose labors are mental and not menial.
“Overseas employment, the nation’s economic lifeline, is turning into its gravedigger.” The figures indeed are staggering: 5 million overseas migrant workers and 3 million immigrants, sending remittances to support one-fourth of the population. The FTA warns that the continued outflow of talent has begun to “decimate [our] few but vital industries” and jeopardize basic services like health and education. The depletion of “mission-critical skills” has imperiled our hospitals, with a low nurse-to-patient ratio. And, most critical of all (and which may explain the full-page ad), our aviation industry has suffered from “foreign poaching” of trained pilots and aviation mechanics, and, in terms of investments in “experiential learning,” the FTA estimates losses of P1 million for each pirated Filipino pilot and around P500,000 for each purloined mechanic.
The portents are scary indeed, but the remedies are just as worrisome. The FTA proposes the “stricter regulation of the outflow of critical skills and talents in crucial and strategic industries.” That is technocrat talk for “Catch them at the airport.” A National Service Act will restrict the migration of “mission-critical professionals,” and require them to render some sort of compulsory community service for a few years.
There is, to start with, a minor hitch known as the Bill of Rights, which ensures every Filipino’s “right to travel.” International human rights treaties speak of it as the “right to leave and to return,” and the Supreme Court held that since the Constitution merely said “to travel,” that excluded the “to return” part. Well anyway, that’s what it took to bar Ferdinand Marcos from returning to the Philippines. By whatever interpretation, the right “to travel” still includes the right “to leave,” and that is the only part of the Bill of Rights that any aspiring Filipino illegal alien cares about right now.
At best, then, any return-service requirement needs to be custom-tailored to the nation’s needs. The period of compulsory service should be fixed and limited, and the covered professions must be confined solely to those truly in crisis.
However, if the problem is the drying up of the supply of professionals, then by all means let us increase the supply. If there is a shortage of nurses, let us open more nursing schools and train more nurses. After all, there are 84 million Filipinos; if even just 5 percent of us are of trainable age and competence, that’s already 4 million skilled brains. And if there is real demand overseas for their God-given talents, let them go where those talents are justly remunerated.
Perhaps the real problem is our schools, and our attitude toward diplomas and degrees. Students learn fancy skills for non-existent jobs, and end up jobless or underemployed. They learn Shakespeare in the land of Pepe and Pilar. Either we match our schools’ supply with the job market’s demand, or we accept it as perfectly legitimate -- as indeed it is -- that college students learn Shakespeare and then affect a Midwestern American accent in a call center.
I think the real fear is that to increase the supply of skilled brainworkers, we must settle for the lesser brained, and that the only way to maintain quality control is to limit access to the professions. I firmly believe that we can democratize admissions without diluting academic standards. Having been a teacher for more than 20 years, I have no illusions about Filipino students. But I have no illusions, either, about admissions tests: Maybe Albert Einstein might have flunked the UPCAT or NMAT admission tests -- after all, he said that “imagination is more important than knowledge.”
The FTA is correct that a return-service requirement should cover the societal investment in their education, but to enforce it by law would only create a class of bright but frustrated Filipinos chafing at their chains and hating the world, a perfect recruiting pool for terrorists and coup plotters.
But there is nothing to stop us from enforcing a return-service obligation, not by law, but by voluntary contract. For example, professors of the University of the Philippines (UP) who are sent abroad on fellowships at the university’s expense are tied down to a return-service requirement. By and large, professors have honored this obligation. There are some “Reneging Fellows,” as they are officially called, but I trust that the university’s lawyers diligently check on these deadbeat academics that have in effect run away with taxpayers’ money.
This system of voluntary contracts must extend to UP’s own graduates. Their education is heavily subsidized, but that subsidy is invisible. It leads to a sense of entitlement by the beneficiaries (indeed, a Darwinian sense of achievement that they beat others to the subsidy), and a lack of appreciation for the taxpayers who shouldered the true cost of their education.
It takes a village to raise a child. Then let the child know how much thanks he owes the village.
* * *
Why restrict the overseas Filipino professional?
First posted 03:07am (Mla time) Mar 24, 2006
By Raul Pangalangan
Inquirer
Editor's Note: Published on Page A12 of the March 24, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
“REGULATE the exodus of skills and talents! Keep the best and the brightest at home!” screamed the banner of a full-page, paid ad that appeared in the Inquirer the other day.
That call was issued by a group calling itself the Fair Trade Alliance (FTA). It asks that we regulate the migration of Filipino professionals and highly skilled workers.
I share their concerns, but not their conclusion. You can only control people’s dreams at your own peril. Fair trade means that traders must be free to compete in the open market, and workers should be just as free to seek the highest value for their labor, locally or abroad. What is sauce for the capitalist goose should be sauce for the proletarian gander, even those whose labors are mental and not menial.
“Overseas employment, the nation’s economic lifeline, is turning into its gravedigger.” The figures indeed are staggering: 5 million overseas migrant workers and 3 million immigrants, sending remittances to support one-fourth of the population. The FTA warns that the continued outflow of talent has begun to “decimate [our] few but vital industries” and jeopardize basic services like health and education. The depletion of “mission-critical skills” has imperiled our hospitals, with a low nurse-to-patient ratio. And, most critical of all (and which may explain the full-page ad), our aviation industry has suffered from “foreign poaching” of trained pilots and aviation mechanics, and, in terms of investments in “experiential learning,” the FTA estimates losses of P1 million for each pirated Filipino pilot and around P500,000 for each purloined mechanic.
The portents are scary indeed, but the remedies are just as worrisome. The FTA proposes the “stricter regulation of the outflow of critical skills and talents in crucial and strategic industries.” That is technocrat talk for “Catch them at the airport.” A National Service Act will restrict the migration of “mission-critical professionals,” and require them to render some sort of compulsory community service for a few years.
There is, to start with, a minor hitch known as the Bill of Rights, which ensures every Filipino’s “right to travel.” International human rights treaties speak of it as the “right to leave and to return,” and the Supreme Court held that since the Constitution merely said “to travel,” that excluded the “to return” part. Well anyway, that’s what it took to bar Ferdinand Marcos from returning to the Philippines. By whatever interpretation, the right “to travel” still includes the right “to leave,” and that is the only part of the Bill of Rights that any aspiring Filipino illegal alien cares about right now.
At best, then, any return-service requirement needs to be custom-tailored to the nation’s needs. The period of compulsory service should be fixed and limited, and the covered professions must be confined solely to those truly in crisis.
However, if the problem is the drying up of the supply of professionals, then by all means let us increase the supply. If there is a shortage of nurses, let us open more nursing schools and train more nurses. After all, there are 84 million Filipinos; if even just 5 percent of us are of trainable age and competence, that’s already 4 million skilled brains. And if there is real demand overseas for their God-given talents, let them go where those talents are justly remunerated.
Perhaps the real problem is our schools, and our attitude toward diplomas and degrees. Students learn fancy skills for non-existent jobs, and end up jobless or underemployed. They learn Shakespeare in the land of Pepe and Pilar. Either we match our schools’ supply with the job market’s demand, or we accept it as perfectly legitimate -- as indeed it is -- that college students learn Shakespeare and then affect a Midwestern American accent in a call center.
I think the real fear is that to increase the supply of skilled brainworkers, we must settle for the lesser brained, and that the only way to maintain quality control is to limit access to the professions. I firmly believe that we can democratize admissions without diluting academic standards. Having been a teacher for more than 20 years, I have no illusions about Filipino students. But I have no illusions, either, about admissions tests: Maybe Albert Einstein might have flunked the UPCAT or NMAT admission tests -- after all, he said that “imagination is more important than knowledge.”
The FTA is correct that a return-service requirement should cover the societal investment in their education, but to enforce it by law would only create a class of bright but frustrated Filipinos chafing at their chains and hating the world, a perfect recruiting pool for terrorists and coup plotters.
But there is nothing to stop us from enforcing a return-service obligation, not by law, but by voluntary contract. For example, professors of the University of the Philippines (UP) who are sent abroad on fellowships at the university’s expense are tied down to a return-service requirement. By and large, professors have honored this obligation. There are some “Reneging Fellows,” as they are officially called, but I trust that the university’s lawyers diligently check on these deadbeat academics that have in effect run away with taxpayers’ money.
This system of voluntary contracts must extend to UP’s own graduates. Their education is heavily subsidized, but that subsidy is invisible. It leads to a sense of entitlement by the beneficiaries (indeed, a Darwinian sense of achievement that they beat others to the subsidy), and a lack of appreciation for the taxpayers who shouldered the true cost of their education.
It takes a village to raise a child. Then let the child know how much thanks he owes the village.
* * *
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Quezon City
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you PAL
"It takes a village to raise a child. Then let the child know how much thanks he owes the village"...I couldn't agree more. I served my contract & served it well (actually w/ lots of commendation from within). Thank you PAL, but no thanks to the village officers & owner
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: philippines
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bisaya
you guys love peanuts? i dont..
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: here and there
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mach.86
heck my uric acid's killin me! wasn't able to attend the meeting but i heard nothing was in it for the ever reliable group 4 pilots! not asking much but the 300 L fuel allotment would have been really appreciated. what?! only those from groups 1&2 drive to work?!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Aboo Dubby
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
History Lesson
Yes Cessna1052, EY is the 2 letter code for Etihad.Was giving moral support for our colleagues in PAL & the other airlines in Philipines.
MAS (my former employer) had the same problem.You had LT & we had TR.Both were suckers.......sucking money from a company which was not fully theirs in equity.Don't worry, with the exodus of local pilots overseas & the shortage of qualified pilots in our region,something is bound to break,hopefully it will not take a crash before anything is done (god forbid!).MAS gave their pilots a pay rise recently, even after they were bleeding money (through management incompetence) as they know they will lose more if they didn' t pay them close to market rates.
So there will be light at the end of the tunnel, however our colleagues in Philipines must be united & not fall to the endless tricks.At the end of the day, a line must be drawn.Some of us did & we never regretted it.
Good luck again guys!
MAS (my former employer) had the same problem.You had LT & we had TR.Both were suckers.......sucking money from a company which was not fully theirs in equity.Don't worry, with the exodus of local pilots overseas & the shortage of qualified pilots in our region,something is bound to break,hopefully it will not take a crash before anything is done (god forbid!).MAS gave their pilots a pay rise recently, even after they were bleeding money (through management incompetence) as they know they will lose more if they didn' t pay them close to market rates.
So there will be light at the end of the tunnel, however our colleagues in Philipines must be united & not fall to the endless tricks.At the end of the day, a line must be drawn.Some of us did & we never regretted it.
Good luck again guys!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Another Reality!!
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come on guys.... tell me what your fantastic new contract is? No one is talking about it figures, so does that mean the deal was good? How much? Should I fly for PAL again?
As far as group 3&4, they have 5 year contracts anyway. So they can't go anywhere. Management don't value you as much coz you aren't leaving like 1&2. The sad fact is, you can actually pay off your contact in less than a year with another company and still be better off than 100k/month!!
As far as group 3&4, they have 5 year contracts anyway. So they can't go anywhere. Management don't value you as much coz you aren't leaving like 1&2. The sad fact is, you can actually pay off your contact in less than a year with another company and still be better off than 100k/month!!