PAL Pilot Exodus
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Hiring Second Officers
Originally Posted by mach.86
regarding the SO not getting paid on time, i wonder if that really is true. but if it is then that is so disappointing. i'm a newbie in this industry and i've got no options yet but to stick with PAL til i get my qualifications. but as early as now, joining a foreign carrier is all i think about (and i'm speaking for my fellow SOs as well). not just for the fat salary but for the growth other airlines promise.
anyone know an airline hiring SOs?
anyone know an airline hiring SOs?
http://www.oasis-air.com/en/careers.aspx#crw http://www.cathaypacific.com/careers...128408,00.html
But I wouldn't recommend leaving Philippine Airlines with a Second Officer rating. I'd wait until I get my B737 or A320 first officer or captain rating before I leave. Promotions with foreign carriers might be extremely slow or next to impossible for SO's especially for expat contract hires. Promotions in PAL are really fast right now with the exodus of pilots. Just wait it out for a few years and think about it later. If you're a newbie, expect movement to the B737 or A320 in 2 to 3 years. But expect to sign a 5 year training agreement.
Good Luck!!
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expat
Hello Guys,
I've read your observations, things happening around Aviation in the Philippines. It is definitely good for everyone, I am one of the few guys working outside the phil., the opportunity was good and I think just like the others, one cant just resist the offer. Etihad,Qatar, Emirates, Airlanka,Air Deccan, Kingfisher,Sincargo, Air HKGcargo,Asiana,Vietnam Airlines, Pacific Air(vietnam),Air Asia etc are just few of the Airlines hiring Filipino pilots. Just to give you an idea, Middle eastern airlines will be needing 4000 pilots in the next 5 years, of which 1400 pilots will be for Emirates alone, Airlines in India are looking towards the same figure, so Guys goodluck.. and yes there 's an airline hiring SOs as well, Qatar Airways is one...its a Career airline so I guessed You can still get promotion along the way.
I've read your observations, things happening around Aviation in the Philippines. It is definitely good for everyone, I am one of the few guys working outside the phil., the opportunity was good and I think just like the others, one cant just resist the offer. Etihad,Qatar, Emirates, Airlanka,Air Deccan, Kingfisher,Sincargo, Air HKGcargo,Asiana,Vietnam Airlines, Pacific Air(vietnam),Air Asia etc are just few of the Airlines hiring Filipino pilots. Just to give you an idea, Middle eastern airlines will be needing 4000 pilots in the next 5 years, of which 1400 pilots will be for Emirates alone, Airlines in India are looking towards the same figure, so Guys goodluck.. and yes there 's an airline hiring SOs as well, Qatar Airways is one...its a Career airline so I guessed You can still get promotion along the way.
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Originally Posted by pinoypiloto
Start4&3 & e6b,
i would also like to know of the preparations and costs for the license/rating conversions.
salamat sa replies!
i would also like to know of the preparations and costs for the license/rating conversions.
salamat sa replies!
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Originally Posted by Cessna1052
Yes, you're right many are remnants of the pilot's strike, a moved instigated by the Some greedy senior pilots, who always tell the junior pilots during meetings at ALPAP" dont worry you're time will come.." but who's to blame? the Union can't support all familys around it(families of the scabs you mention). Lessons from the past, gain some and lose many. Kaptin M? you must be one of those who did not go back to PAL. 
if no one went back in the first place then everything would have worked out. But I guess we Filipinos aren't that enlightened enough, just look at what's going on in our country right now, we never learn. You have to be one hell of a patriot not to be thinking of jumping ship.
True, there were a lot of
senior guys and I'm glad that I don't have to greet them "sir, good morning sir!" anymore, but that's not the point. There was a STRIKE VOTE, if you voted "NO", i respect that. If you voted "YES", then be a man and live up to your word! If you voted "YES" but meant "NO", then you're an idiot!Now that there is no more union in PAL, pilots are treated like dirt and who is to blame? The scabs who went back "for the love of PAL" are in exodus.I was a Fokker-50 F/O back in '98; bottom of the food chain. True, a lot of the junior guys who stuck it out had to go back eventually because they had nothing to feed their families...I have nothing against them. I even share a San Mig with them once in a while. But with real scabs, that's a different matter...
Last edited by e6b; 2nd Mar 2006 at 05:03.
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First of all; those who got their flight time for "free".
I know guys from the Philippine Air Force who have done great service to our Motherland, if what they got was "free" flight time, I believe they deserve a lot better than that.
PAL Aviation Cadets: in my batch there were 2000 applicants and only 20 were chosen. We were the best of the best and we deserved it. Not to mention the kind of "Dodo" we had to go through; and once we graduated from flying school and flew on the line, same old .
Your parents worked hard to help you become a pilot, good for you.
But don't even for once think that pilots from the PAF and PAL AV School do not deserve their wings.
Some of my friends went back to PAL during the strike with a heavy heart. They did it not out of greed to fast track their career but for their families. If you are like these good souls then I have no quarrel with you. I wish you peace and prosperity.
But for the real ESKIROL, i just can't find it in my heart to break bread with them. Not because I lost my "bottom of the food chain" position, but rather, it was a betrayal of trust.
You're right, let God decide. That's the law of Karma, eventually you get what's coming to you, if not in this life, then the next...
I know guys from the Philippine Air Force who have done great service to our Motherland, if what they got was "free" flight time, I believe they deserve a lot better than that.
PAL Aviation Cadets: in my batch there were 2000 applicants and only 20 were chosen. We were the best of the best and we deserved it. Not to mention the kind of "Dodo"
we had to go through; and once we graduated from flying school and flew on the line, same old . Your parents worked hard to help you become a pilot, good for you.
But don't even for once think that pilots from the PAF and PAL AV School do not deserve their wings.
Some of my friends went back to PAL during the strike with a heavy heart. They did it not out of greed to fast track their career but for their families. If you are like these good souls then I have no quarrel with you. I wish you peace and prosperity.
But for the real ESKIROL, i just can't find it in my heart to break bread with them. Not because I lost my "bottom of the food chain" position, but rather, it was a betrayal of trust.
You're right, let God decide. That's the law of Karma, eventually you get what's coming to you, if not in this life, then the next...
Last edited by e6b; 2nd Mar 2006 at 05:05.
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To Pinoy Piloto
Just keep on building your hours a little more. I think PAL requirement is just 600 hours CPL w/ IR, multi engine to join as F/O light jet (320 or 737) or as S/O 340/330 or 747-400. That is if you can take a salary that low (F/O will make less than a cabin crew from Cathay or Emirates, about $900 net/mo.) & bond yourself w/out depreciation for 5 years for every training you get.
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PAL requirement
Originally Posted by r2d2rebel
Just keep on building your hours a little more. I think PAL requirement is just 600 hours CPL w/ IR, multi engine to join as F/O light jet (320 or 737) or as S/O 340/330 or 747-400. That is if you can take a salary that low (F/O will make less than a cabin crew from Cathay or Emirates, about $900 net/mo.) & bond yourself w/out depreciation for 5 years for every training you get.
I had a talk with a friend who is an S/O in PAL to clarify this, the requirement for S/O is 500 hours BUT it must be on an aircraft with at least a 500HP engine. Anything less than that will be considered 50% only. Meaning if you fly a single or a light twin having with an engine below 500hp, you must have at least 1,000 hours to be considered. F/O is 1,200 hours ( 500+hp engine). Hope this helps.
D6
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Sayang, i always wanted to go back to my homeland and work for PAL. I didn't know things were that bad and still going downhill. Guess I can scratch that idea. How bout CebuPac? How are the conditions on that side? Or maybe is it just safe to say to stay away from the two?
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poachers a comin' and hungrier
anyone hear about some asian airlines getting busy with the idea of buying the 5 year contracts of PAL pilots so they can be free to join their company and then have the pilots pay thru salary deduction?the bill for a wide body F/O is about US$20,000.a lot of crew would take a second look at the asian job boom knowing they could get a free pass.
Last edited by batuta23; 3rd Mar 2006 at 17:12. Reason: bad spell
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Right now, the pilot exodus is starting to be felt in CEBPAC. They just started refleeting with new planes, A320s, and what do they do? Make their pilots feel that they owe it to the company that they still have a job and that they will be trained on the 320s. And to add insult to injury, they give different salary levels to captains just because one came from a dc9 and another from a 757! Doing the same work with different pay? With this scheme, they'll be losing pilots faster than PAL.
As I gathered from a pilot who is enslaved there, CEBPAC base hr is 80. 320 Capts pay $2,400 (if you come from the 757) and $1,900 (from DC9). Additionals are transportation allowance ($3 per check-in), Rice allowance (less than the amount of 1 sack of rice given every 3 months), overtime pay (50% of daily rate) which you'll probably use to pay for hospital bills as flying more than 80 hrs is a killer, free breakfast, lunch, snack or dinner which must be gulped down in 5 minutes so as not to delay their turnaround. FOs pay barely squeaked past $1,000. So if anybody is interested, just feel free to apply.
I think CEBPAC will soon become a training academy rather than a discount carrier.
As I gathered from a pilot who is enslaved there, CEBPAC base hr is 80. 320 Capts pay $2,400 (if you come from the 757) and $1,900 (from DC9). Additionals are transportation allowance ($3 per check-in), Rice allowance (less than the amount of 1 sack of rice given every 3 months), overtime pay (50% of daily rate) which you'll probably use to pay for hospital bills as flying more than 80 hrs is a killer, free breakfast, lunch, snack or dinner which must be gulped down in 5 minutes so as not to delay their turnaround. FOs pay barely squeaked past $1,000. So if anybody is interested, just feel free to apply.
I think CEBPAC will soon become a training academy rather than a discount carrier.
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Originally Posted by Navitimer
I think CEBPAC will soon become a training academy rather than a discount carrier.
And with the proposed bill in congress that would prohibit Filipino pilots from seeking employment abroad for the next 3-5 years; a lot of pilotos at CebuPac, who had no inclination of leaving, are now seriously re-evaluating their options.
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Philippine Airlines' solution
I heard rumors that pilots promised training dates with SIA Cargo have been told their training will not continue . The alleged reason was that the Philippine Government and/or Philippine Airlines called SIA and requested that PAL pilots not be hired . I still have to confirm this info. Will post when I get to talk to guys who were supposed to leave for SIA Cargo.
. The alleged reason was that the Philippine Government and/or Philippine Airlines called SIA and requested that PAL pilots not be hired . I still have to confirm this info. Will post when I get to talk to guys who were supposed to leave for SIA Cargo.
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Originally Posted by batuta23
anyone hear about some asian airlines getting busy with the idea of buying the 5 year contracts of PAL pilots so they can be free to join their company and then have the pilots pay thru salary deduction?the bill for a wide body F/O is about US$20,000.a lot of crew would take a second look at the asian job boom knowing they could get a free pass.
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Indian airlines
Guys, please be warned about these Indian Airline offers. I spoke to someone from there, and from what I've heard your security of tenure is "very temporary". As soon as they can put someone in your place Capt or F/O, you are out of there in a heartbeat. Same case for the Koreans. They are short on pilots now but once they have trained enough of their own countrymen to replace you......... enough said.
I just hope that your stay is long enough to regain your ground and look for something more promising but I wouldn't risk it not unless you really have to.
Cessna1052, with this 6 months notice and a 5 year ban, they can basically ruin your plans. Looks like I am in limbo here..... you know what I mean.
D6
I just hope that your stay is long enough to regain your ground and look for something more promising but I wouldn't risk it not unless you really have to.
Cessna1052, with this 6 months notice and a 5 year ban, they can basically ruin your plans. Looks like I am in limbo here..... you know what I mean.
D6
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Originally Posted by Cessna1052
i havent heard about that offer from Kingfisher, are they willing to absorb your training expenses? If they really will, it seems to me as a very good deal considering that their offering more than $8000 basic pay aside from the accomodation and per diem.
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Does it matter whether you're "factory" trained or trained by other accredited schools? What does it mean? You can fly any airplane you've trained in whether factory or not. As long as you have the rating the companies are asking for then you're ok, otherwise start preparing for your bond.