Royal Brunei MarkII (Merged).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK, Middle East, Far East, USA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is no crime to be inexperienced, whatever your definition of inexperience is. And there has been no criticism of an individual for being inexperienced that I know of. The criticism is directed at an airline management that has put people on command courses before they were ready. This as a result of driving away the core of experienced line captains that any airline needs to operate safely and successfully. When the inexperienced command trainees fail (as the previous post makes clear that some do) it is then another 2 base checks and a year before they can be considered for another go. This is not fair on the individual and a waste of valuable training time for the airline.
The results of this exodus of experience are now being seen as inexperienced crews fly older and older aircraft, with more and more ADDs, usually fatigued, and the number of (unnecessary) IFSDs has reached an unprecedented level. The ETOPS limit has been reduced to 120 minutes as a result.
BUT, that is not the (inexperienced) crews fault imho. The fault starts with the last CEO and permeates down to the present 767 DFM.
The previous posters comments about there being some people left in RBA with more than half a brain are not in dispute. But it is experience that RBA Flight Ops is short of right now and it has driven most of it away through management arrogance and stupidity. The real consequences of such managerial incompetence are only now beginning to surface.
The results of this exodus of experience are now being seen as inexperienced crews fly older and older aircraft, with more and more ADDs, usually fatigued, and the number of (unnecessary) IFSDs has reached an unprecedented level. The ETOPS limit has been reduced to 120 minutes as a result.
BUT, that is not the (inexperienced) crews fault imho. The fault starts with the last CEO and permeates down to the present 767 DFM.
The previous posters comments about there being some people left in RBA with more than half a brain are not in dispute. But it is experience that RBA Flight Ops is short of right now and it has driven most of it away through management arrogance and stupidity. The real consequences of such managerial incompetence are only now beginning to surface.
Last edited by THINALBERT; 9th Nov 2005 at 10:20.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brunei
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Inexperienced Pilots Within RBA
I agree with TA but would add a couple of thoughts
I respect and admire the potential of some of the new pilots. But the fact remains that they are indeed inexperienced.
In that respect it is my humble opinion that you might well be able to pole the aircraft down the ILS with perfect results, but there is a lack of what when I was just as young was called "command experience"
Command experience cannot be taught, dispite the best efforts of CD. We cannot escape the fact that there is just too much inexperience in RBA.
Further, I have never judged a person on their hours of experience, only their character.
I respect and admire the potential of some of the new pilots. But the fact remains that they are indeed inexperienced.
In that respect it is my humble opinion that you might well be able to pole the aircraft down the ILS with perfect results, but there is a lack of what when I was just as young was called "command experience"
Command experience cannot be taught, dispite the best efforts of CD. We cannot escape the fact that there is just too much inexperience in RBA.
Further, I have never judged a person on their hours of experience, only their character.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are all big boys.. you get put on a Command Course and fail...bad luck.Generally its the individuals fault..although a few boys might say otherwise.RBA has always had a high turnover of Captains, its part of the reason why most of us are here or still here...its a good oppurtunity.
The DT's and the RE's are being replaced with 6000 hour Captains, some of which it is there first Command...so what?
If the guy is no good he will not get through the course,the training standards overall are good in RBA.
The biggest concern is these junior captains flying with some of the ex cadets with 700 hours.Luckily that is happening less due to rishworth and other factors.So the guys arrive here with not much previous jet experience.So what... he will have in five years.I would far rather fly with these guys coming up here with 5,6,7ooo hours....
Some of the older chaps with command experience( which you cannot teach, thanks for stating the obvious there 14U)
have failed commands.It's not a function of age.
I do agree that the lack of experience and quality in the office is a concern.These guys are responsible for our safety culture, and this is a real concern.Which should be the focus.
Stop painting me and the majority of the other boys ,as inexperienced pilots.Because its a load of old pork...
The DT's and the RE's are being replaced with 6000 hour Captains, some of which it is there first Command...so what?
If the guy is no good he will not get through the course,the training standards overall are good in RBA.
The biggest concern is these junior captains flying with some of the ex cadets with 700 hours.Luckily that is happening less due to rishworth and other factors.So the guys arrive here with not much previous jet experience.So what... he will have in five years.I would far rather fly with these guys coming up here with 5,6,7ooo hours....
Some of the older chaps with command experience( which you cannot teach, thanks for stating the obvious there 14U)
have failed commands.It's not a function of age.
I do agree that the lack of experience and quality in the office is a concern.These guys are responsible for our safety culture, and this is a real concern.Which should be the focus.
Stop painting me and the majority of the other boys ,as inexperienced pilots.Because its a load of old pork...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK, Middle East, Far East, USA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote "The DT's and the RE's are being replaced with 6000 hour Captains, some of which it is there first Command...so what?
If the guy is no good he will not get through the course,the training standards overall are good in RBA." Unquote
The "so what" is that when the guy fails his command course there is an even more inexperienced FO waiting to be "given a go." Didn't one very brave FO recently decline a command course because he had the sense to realise himself that he wasn't ready for it - despite the willingness of RBA to let him "have a go?"
Eventually you will have direct entry commands (already looking I am told) and that will upset some FOs who see themselves being passed over as they realise that their shot at a course is not getting any closer.
This inexperience is already causing disruption to line operations and is responsible (at least in part) for the 120 mins ETOPS restriction. Add in low morale, ageing aeroplanes, fatigue, the open knowledge that more captains are working their notice (and even the dalai lama can see the writing on the wall - hell, he is responsible for most of it) and you have a real problem. Other captains have interviews before christmas, rosters are interfered with (prior to publication) by the fleet office and training dept so that noone else has any respite from fatigue. All the holes in the swiss cheese are starting to line up nicely don't you think? A lot of these problems have nothing to do with inexperience and could be sorted by a fair and competent management but it could be the final nail in the coffin if the situation continues as is.
If I was the FSO I would be very worried. Have you replaced the one that resigned recently?
If the guy is no good he will not get through the course,the training standards overall are good in RBA." Unquote
The "so what" is that when the guy fails his command course there is an even more inexperienced FO waiting to be "given a go." Didn't one very brave FO recently decline a command course because he had the sense to realise himself that he wasn't ready for it - despite the willingness of RBA to let him "have a go?"
Eventually you will have direct entry commands (already looking I am told) and that will upset some FOs who see themselves being passed over as they realise that their shot at a course is not getting any closer.
This inexperience is already causing disruption to line operations and is responsible (at least in part) for the 120 mins ETOPS restriction. Add in low morale, ageing aeroplanes, fatigue, the open knowledge that more captains are working their notice (and even the dalai lama can see the writing on the wall - hell, he is responsible for most of it) and you have a real problem. Other captains have interviews before christmas, rosters are interfered with (prior to publication) by the fleet office and training dept so that noone else has any respite from fatigue. All the holes in the swiss cheese are starting to line up nicely don't you think? A lot of these problems have nothing to do with inexperience and could be sorted by a fair and competent management but it could be the final nail in the coffin if the situation continues as is.
If I was the FSO I would be very worried. Have you replaced the one that resigned recently?
Last edited by THINALBERT; 10th Nov 2005 at 09:32.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brunei
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What Safety Culture
Wayan the safety culture & quality in the fleet office is indeed a worry.
There can be no justification as to the treatment and intimidation of both past and present pilots. If I had been the object of the correspondence being passed around I would have at least had the guts to resign my management post, personally I wouldnt be able to show my face at MCC again.
That not even an investigation takes place brings me to conclude that they are all in it together.
There can be no justification as to the treatment and intimidation of both past and present pilots. If I had been the object of the correspondence being passed around I would have at least had the guts to resign my management post, personally I wouldnt be able to show my face at MCC again.
That not even an investigation takes place brings me to conclude that they are all in it together.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brunei
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An Office With No Shame Or Accountability
Three managers, bound together by their collective misbehaviour, press on regardless bringing more bad publicity to our Airline.
They care not for the reputation of our Airline, not once will they have stopped to think of right or wrong in their victimization against various pilots.
Any professional pilot speaking up would have immediatly been intimidated by these managers, which is why so many have decided to leave.
It is they that are accountable, and an investigation should take place before yet more examples of their shameful management are exposed.
They care not for the reputation of our Airline, not once will they have stopped to think of right or wrong in their victimization against various pilots.
Any professional pilot speaking up would have immediatly been intimidated by these managers, which is why so many have decided to leave.
It is they that are accountable, and an investigation should take place before yet more examples of their shameful management are exposed.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brunei
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Request For A DCA Audit Of 767 Rosters.
Some pilots on the 767 Fleet are exhausted. The rostered FRA patten in particular, is not rostered in an equatable manner. The Fleet Memo of 07th October is a scandel. Is a pilot to pack his house while on back to back FRA's with 2 days OFF in between?
The Brunei Directorate Of Civil Aviation should be made aware of the FATIGUE on the 767 Fleet.
This is a FLIGHT SAFETY ISSUE that is being ignored by the present DFO and the Boeing 767 Fleet Managers.
The recommendations of CAP 371 titled "The Avoidance Of Fatigue In Aircrew" should be applied and respected. In particular, attention and adherence is required to Section C, Annex E on page 3.
The Brunei Directorate Of Civil Aviation should be made aware of the FATIGUE on the 767 Fleet.
This is a FLIGHT SAFETY ISSUE that is being ignored by the present DFO and the Boeing 767 Fleet Managers.
The recommendations of CAP 371 titled "The Avoidance Of Fatigue In Aircrew" should be applied and respected. In particular, attention and adherence is required to Section C, Annex E on page 3.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Only MEL and LHR now
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leave it out BOYs. There is enough sh!t flying around at the moment without bringing the DCA down on me, I mean us. What would a DCA audit prove apart from that I dont like going to FRA?
If you have a problem with the roster come and see me in person and we will discuss it at the back of the bike shed.
If you have a problem with the roster come and see me in person and we will discuss it at the back of the bike shed.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brunei
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Directorate Of Civil Aviation Audit Required
Ref CAP 371 - The Avoidance Of Fatigue In Aircrew.
Civil Aviation Documents show that "a company should ensure that the SPIRIT AND INTENT of CAP371 is complied with"
In addition Royal Brunei should adhere to the contents of the Company Operations Manual
In this the Rostering Controllers Responsibility is to (COM 1.3.22.1 f ) "Maintain adherence to the Flight Time Limitation Scheme." and to make sure that (COM 7.21.4.4) Pilots "Have an average of at least 8 days off in each consecutive 4 week period, averaged over three such periods"
The last company audit carried out over the period 12th June-03rd Sept 2005 found that a staggering 19 out of 106 pilots on the 767 Fleet did not achive the above requirments.
This is BEFORE you concider the endless roster changes and in the case of the BKK direct FRA the lack of in flight rest facilities, those provided would be concidered a joke by more responsible Airlines.
Complain, to who? The company Flight Safety Dept. It exists only in name to satisfy the regulatory requirements. Thats not to say the committed and professional Officers are not doing their duties, they are flying their butts off. They are given no time or support to carry out their important duties.
A visit to the Fleet Office will, like so many have found, make you a target. You will be advised that you "should go that extra mile" that you are failing to be "a team member" This is passive bulling, making pilots have an attitude of "pressonitis", something that you used to be taught in the simulator NEVER to do. It is DANGEROUS.
I do not wish to be in "Team Fatigue" I am already in "Team Inexperienced" Add the two together and we have a dangerous cocktail. The DCA should inspect the whole aspect of crewing, and the lack of experience.
Civil Aviation Documents show that "a company should ensure that the SPIRIT AND INTENT of CAP371 is complied with"
In addition Royal Brunei should adhere to the contents of the Company Operations Manual
In this the Rostering Controllers Responsibility is to (COM 1.3.22.1 f ) "Maintain adherence to the Flight Time Limitation Scheme." and to make sure that (COM 7.21.4.4) Pilots "Have an average of at least 8 days off in each consecutive 4 week period, averaged over three such periods"
The last company audit carried out over the period 12th June-03rd Sept 2005 found that a staggering 19 out of 106 pilots on the 767 Fleet did not achive the above requirments.
This is BEFORE you concider the endless roster changes and in the case of the BKK direct FRA the lack of in flight rest facilities, those provided would be concidered a joke by more responsible Airlines.
Complain, to who? The company Flight Safety Dept. It exists only in name to satisfy the regulatory requirements. Thats not to say the committed and professional Officers are not doing their duties, they are flying their butts off. They are given no time or support to carry out their important duties.
A visit to the Fleet Office will, like so many have found, make you a target. You will be advised that you "should go that extra mile" that you are failing to be "a team member" This is passive bulling, making pilots have an attitude of "pressonitis", something that you used to be taught in the simulator NEVER to do. It is DANGEROUS.
I do not wish to be in "Team Fatigue" I am already in "Team Inexperienced" Add the two together and we have a dangerous cocktail. The DCA should inspect the whole aspect of crewing, and the lack of experience.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK, Middle East, Far East, USA
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rumours are reaching TA that you may not be getting the change(s) of personnel in the 767 fleet office that I know you were nearly all looking forward to.
If he/they stay you really need to get them promoted sideways if you are ever to move forward.
Rostering took a hit in the last post. Its not entirely their fault as they have only the crap trips left to roster after management and training have ring fenced all the decent (= min jet lag, max time off down route, best destinations, back to BWN in time for dinner at RBYC) trips. Everyone else gets to fight the jet lag at 0600 local at TOD for FRA on their third or fourth consecutive BKK/FRA pattern. Criminal.
I suppose its asking too much for the 767 FM/DFM to have the integrity to resign their management positions?
If he/they stay you really need to get them promoted sideways if you are ever to move forward.
Rostering took a hit in the last post. Its not entirely their fault as they have only the crap trips left to roster after management and training have ring fenced all the decent (= min jet lag, max time off down route, best destinations, back to BWN in time for dinner at RBYC) trips. Everyone else gets to fight the jet lag at 0600 local at TOD for FRA on their third or fourth consecutive BKK/FRA pattern. Criminal.
I suppose its asking too much for the 767 FM/DFM to have the integrity to resign their management positions?
Last edited by THINALBERT; 19th Nov 2005 at 07:44.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brunei
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
767 FM/DFM To Resign or Not?
TA I think not. The vast majority of all messages about RBA point out the lack of safety culture, quality and integrity in the 767 office.
They were suckered into the DFO's plot to get rid of several Capts. No other RBA managers, past or present would have taken any part in the scurrilous activity that goes on.
Should they remain in RBA, all 3 will face a disciplinary inquiry. Most of us look forward to that, and to the resurgence of the RBAs pride when they have gone.
Circulating High Court documents record only some events, and one can only wonder the effects on RBAs image after reporting restrictions are lifted.
They were suckered into the DFO's plot to get rid of several Capts. No other RBA managers, past or present would have taken any part in the scurrilous activity that goes on.
Should they remain in RBA, all 3 will face a disciplinary inquiry. Most of us look forward to that, and to the resurgence of the RBAs pride when they have gone.
Circulating High Court documents record only some events, and one can only wonder the effects on RBAs image after reporting restrictions are lifted.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: EGLL
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lack Of Integrity Has Its Consequences
You said it straight. There will be some squirming and backstabbing over this.
One of those 3 managers was recently interviewed by SQ Cargo, and he was successful in his application. This was subject to the obtaining of references.
Subsequently, SQ became aware of a relevent Brunei High Court Writ and his involvement, which became a topic at a SQ BOD meeting. The consequence of the meeting was that they did not wish to take the risk of a scandal and newspaper attention, resulting in a loss of revenue.
The succesful application was therefore retracted.
Will the BOD of Royal Brunei be having their own review?
The fact that so many ex RBA managers and senior pilots, in part driven away by the consequences of this same manager, must surely raise some questions.
One of those 3 managers was recently interviewed by SQ Cargo, and he was successful in his application. This was subject to the obtaining of references.
Subsequently, SQ became aware of a relevent Brunei High Court Writ and his involvement, which became a topic at a SQ BOD meeting. The consequence of the meeting was that they did not wish to take the risk of a scandal and newspaper attention, resulting in a loss of revenue.
The succesful application was therefore retracted.
Will the BOD of Royal Brunei be having their own review?
The fact that so many ex RBA managers and senior pilots, in part driven away by the consequences of this same manager, must surely raise some questions.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UAE
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is such a shame to see a once proud airline sink so low. I care not for the rights or wrongs of the various issues under discussion on this bulletin board. The fact of the matter is that if RBA had any leadership at all on the BOD, the 3 managers concerned would either be given an immediate and public vote of confidence or they would be suspended pending the outcome of an internal disciplinary hearing in accordance with the Ts&Cs of their employment. The current legal action will probably take years to resolve and RBA must take charge of its own destiny long before such a legal outcome is reached. Failure to do so will be fatal for the airline's morale, public standing and profitability.
The fact that a public vote of confidence or suspension has still not taken place adds more fuel to the fire that there really is something to hide and that RBA is devoid of quality leadership at all levels.
Time for the BOD to act decisively in the best interest of the airline I think.
The fact that a public vote of confidence or suspension has still not taken place adds more fuel to the fire that there really is something to hide and that RBA is devoid of quality leadership at all levels.
Time for the BOD to act decisively in the best interest of the airline I think.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brunei
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The recent reminder from the Deputy Director of Flight Operations for the pilots to adhere to dress standards is all very well. He has a point, and the pilots will respond.
However, over the past months the standards of the 767 office have brought the company's name into disrepute.
Is it asking too much for the pilots to have a couple of managers that can bring some respect to the office that they hold?
However, over the past months the standards of the 767 office have brought the company's name into disrepute.
Is it asking too much for the pilots to have a couple of managers that can bring some respect to the office that they hold?
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Brunei
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of my best friends, a pilot of 10+ years here and a Captain here for at least 6 of those years, resigned yesterday.
He's following the flight path of so many who have taken the BI 421 on the 1 hr 50 minute flight across the South China Sea.
And another old friend who left here about 6 years ago is returning to the fold after deciding that the grass is NOT greener on the other side. I'm glad he's back but I wonder if he is looking back at this place with rose tinted spectacles.
If what I was told is true, one Airbus F.O. resigned or is resigning in the next day or two.
And another Airbus F.O. will be resigning soon too.
I don't want ot be the last one out, but just in case I am, where is the light switch and how do I turn off the gas & water ?
So sad.
Cheers
He's following the flight path of so many who have taken the BI 421 on the 1 hr 50 minute flight across the South China Sea.
And another old friend who left here about 6 years ago is returning to the fold after deciding that the grass is NOT greener on the other side. I'm glad he's back but I wonder if he is looking back at this place with rose tinted spectacles.
If what I was told is true, one Airbus F.O. resigned or is resigning in the next day or two.
And another Airbus F.O. will be resigning soon too.
I don't want ot be the last one out, but just in case I am, where is the light switch and how do I turn off the gas & water ?
So sad.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ORD - Oil Rich Den
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All agree the B777 would be a better aircraft to suite RBAs needs. Unfortunately no one dares to make a firm commitment, incase he shoots himself in the foot. The issue as I understand, has gone up to the main man! Hang in there, we`ll know sooner or later.