Royal Brunei MarkII (Merged).
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Back to the subject.....
No fuel leak, but it does seem that the good engine was shut down..........
After the last IFSD and the removal of 180mins ETOPS, we were only just inside the 0.05 threshold to keep 120mins, surely this incident must now take us past the point of loosing ETOPS altogether????
No fuel leak, but it does seem that the good engine was shut down..........
After the last IFSD and the removal of 180mins ETOPS, we were only just inside the 0.05 threshold to keep 120mins, surely this incident must now take us past the point of loosing ETOPS altogether????
Last edited by Big Nuts; 18th Oct 2005 at 08:14.
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Sook Mi Oph
I stand by what I say.
If you have been in RBA a while what is your view on the pay cuts over the last few years,., or the reduction to your signed contract conditions. Are you happy with your back to back Fra's and Lhr's. with 2 days off in between been as a line capt.
Are you not flying fatigued, as you must be one of a very few line capts who is not.
If you are so contented with RBA, then good for you, you will likely be happy in RBA until retirement.
As far as your username is concerned, and your original post, I stand by what I said. Many people may not have seen your original post on the 7 oct, only your edited post on the 8 Oct. please amend your post back to the original for everyone to see.
You identified Wings on the thread (incorrectly I believe)....not on... please identify yourself then.
We know who BWM is, not you.
If you have been in RBA a while what is your view on the pay cuts over the last few years,., or the reduction to your signed contract conditions. Are you happy with your back to back Fra's and Lhr's. with 2 days off in between been as a line capt.
Are you not flying fatigued, as you must be one of a very few line capts who is not.
If you are so contented with RBA, then good for you, you will likely be happy in RBA until retirement.
As far as your username is concerned, and your original post, I stand by what I said. Many people may not have seen your original post on the 7 oct, only your edited post on the 8 Oct. please amend your post back to the original for everyone to see.
You identified Wings on the thread (incorrectly I believe)....not on... please identify yourself then.
We know who BWM is, not you.
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So Who Cares?
RBA General Flight Operations Notice no 038/2003 issued by the Dir of Flight Ops 28/03/03 states "It is becoming common for some pilots to arrive at briefing for flying duties tired and deshevelled. The current schedules are demanding and often have only minimum rest periods; they are likey to remain so in the future."etc
In Feb/04 a Senior Captain was so fatigued he had cause to write to the DFM 767 (cc to various others) and among other issues wrote:
"The Company Operations Manual SOP section states that "The primary task of either pilot is to fly the aeroplane". Likewise the primary task of Management must also be to manage. While management positions may be seen by some as "good little earners" or a way of escaping current roster patterns, proper management nevertheless remains an onerous responsibility and duty that should remain foremost in the minds of all managers, ever aware that they are subject to rules laid down in Conventions, Orginisations, Safety Boards, AOC's, Directives, Certifications, Aviation Law and various others volumes. It is a requirement of any Flight Operations Department to always keep its airline on the right side of a safe operation, being aware of the grave consequences for failing to do so.
These responsibilities are usually only brought into focus when a Board of Enquiry is charged with looking into an accident. At that time it is imperative that a company or its officers avoid the charge of negligence; upon that word lies a company and/or an individual's future. If deemed negligent the Board of Enquiry has the power to fine or imprision or both. Each survivor or relative of a victim is also capable of bringing an individual suit upon anyone so deemed; instant loss of career, fined into poverty for life and/or possible imprisonment. The Flight Safety Foundation definition of safety ends with the warning that "safety is often unsung until it is absent".
It is now October of 2005. What may I ask has Flight Operations done to reduce the Fatigue on the 767 fleet and improve the lifestyle to improve the moral etc etc.? Nothing. The DFO has neglected his duties and has allowed the airlines standards to tumble.
So who cares?
The Board of Directors know little about aviation and safety. More importantly they should know how safety is achived or maintained. With the present levels of fatigue and chronic lack of experiance in the crews, RBA is heading for an accident. Action is required NOW.
Investigate why so many experianced pilots have left over the last few years. Ask the pilots, not the DFO and his 767 managers who are the cause of many of them leaving and who care not.
In Feb/04 a Senior Captain was so fatigued he had cause to write to the DFM 767 (cc to various others) and among other issues wrote:
"The Company Operations Manual SOP section states that "The primary task of either pilot is to fly the aeroplane". Likewise the primary task of Management must also be to manage. While management positions may be seen by some as "good little earners" or a way of escaping current roster patterns, proper management nevertheless remains an onerous responsibility and duty that should remain foremost in the minds of all managers, ever aware that they are subject to rules laid down in Conventions, Orginisations, Safety Boards, AOC's, Directives, Certifications, Aviation Law and various others volumes. It is a requirement of any Flight Operations Department to always keep its airline on the right side of a safe operation, being aware of the grave consequences for failing to do so.
These responsibilities are usually only brought into focus when a Board of Enquiry is charged with looking into an accident. At that time it is imperative that a company or its officers avoid the charge of negligence; upon that word lies a company and/or an individual's future. If deemed negligent the Board of Enquiry has the power to fine or imprision or both. Each survivor or relative of a victim is also capable of bringing an individual suit upon anyone so deemed; instant loss of career, fined into poverty for life and/or possible imprisonment. The Flight Safety Foundation definition of safety ends with the warning that "safety is often unsung until it is absent".
It is now October of 2005. What may I ask has Flight Operations done to reduce the Fatigue on the 767 fleet and improve the lifestyle to improve the moral etc etc.? Nothing. The DFO has neglected his duties and has allowed the airlines standards to tumble.
So who cares?
The Board of Directors know little about aviation and safety. More importantly they should know how safety is achived or maintained. With the present levels of fatigue and chronic lack of experiance in the crews, RBA is heading for an accident. Action is required NOW.
Investigate why so many experianced pilots have left over the last few years. Ask the pilots, not the DFO and his 767 managers who are the cause of many of them leaving and who care not.
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Latest Affidavit
The latest Affidavit doing the rounds is really a confirmation of the behaviour emanating from the 767 Fleet Office for some time now.
Shame on you all.
Huge respect to those that struggle to bring change.
Shame on you all.
Huge respect to those that struggle to bring change.
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ETOPS
Looking through the history of RBA in these posts, about a year ago RBA had 3 engine failures/shutdowns landing in Perth, Ujung Pandang and Karachi.
This was followed by an engine shutdown and diversion into Bangkok and couple of months ago 3 engine shutdowns on the same aircraft over the period of a few days. After this the CAA removed the 180 ETOPS
Now there seems to have been yet another engine shutdown, and some doubt if indeed it should have been shut down at all.
This is a very high % of failure for such a small fleet, and not in keeping with its reputation over the last few years. Big Nuts do you have more news, opinions or comment.
This was followed by an engine shutdown and diversion into Bangkok and couple of months ago 3 engine shutdowns on the same aircraft over the period of a few days. After this the CAA removed the 180 ETOPS
Now there seems to have been yet another engine shutdown, and some doubt if indeed it should have been shut down at all.
This is a very high % of failure for such a small fleet, and not in keeping with its reputation over the last few years. Big Nuts do you have more news, opinions or comment.
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Affidavit No3
I have read and re read the affidavit doing the rounds at the moment. It is a disgrace. Just when you think that the behaviour of the 767 fleet managers cant get worse, they lower the tone another rung.
For sure the BOD are going to hear about his lastest misconduct, and it begs the question, how long are they prepaired to suffer the humiliation that the Flight Operations Dept has brought upon the airline.
The fact that one of the Flight Ops Managers has recently attemted to seek employment elsewhere, can only give us reason for a little optimism.
For sure the BOD are going to hear about his lastest misconduct, and it begs the question, how long are they prepaired to suffer the humiliation that the Flight Operations Dept has brought upon the airline.
The fact that one of the Flight Ops Managers has recently attemted to seek employment elsewhere, can only give us reason for a little optimism.
Cunning Artificer
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After this the CAA removed the 180 ETOPS
Edited to remove direct reference to a specific individual.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 1st Nov 2005 at 03:55.
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BS, I thought we had resolved this by PM. Is or is not RBA operating to 180 minutes ETOPS? I understand that RBK is the latest aog airplane, though not engine related. That must be affecting the schedule badly.
And can someone PM me the latest avidavit please.
And can someone PM me the latest avidavit please.
Last edited by THINALBERT; 1st Nov 2005 at 00:34.
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Sorry TA I was actually having a go at South Shore for once again raising the (irrelevant) subject of ETOPS and including an incorrect suggestion that the CAA (sic) had taken some sort of punitive action.
Before anyone raises this subject again, I submit the following:
ETOPS is used for operational reasons in order to more economically serve specific routes. Indeed, some routes can only be flown using ETOPS. Choosing to operate to any particular ETOPS rating is a thus financial decision, not an airworthiness decision. Without an operational need for the rating, an operator may voluntarily forego ETOPS altogether in order to avoid the expense of maintaining the required system reliability levels. This would be no reflection whatsoever upon that operator's airworthiness standards.
ETOPS is a reliability matter, managed through compliance with specific service bulletins and airworthiness directives. ETOPS is not restricted to engines but involves a comprehensive assessment of all relevant on-board systems. The process is monitored through a reliability programme overseen by a reliability committee, has little to do with 'airworthiness' as a concept and nothing at all to do with pilots' working conditions. An ETOPS rating is reduced to a lower rating by the reliability committee reporting to the regulator that the reliability of any relevant on-board system, including but not limited to the engines, has fallen below the predictor figure. The regulator will approve restoration of the rating to its former level once satisfied that the relevant reliability level has been restored.
As BlueEagle already warned, please be sure of your facts before posting specific allegations.
Before anyone raises this subject again, I submit the following:
ETOPS is used for operational reasons in order to more economically serve specific routes. Indeed, some routes can only be flown using ETOPS. Choosing to operate to any particular ETOPS rating is a thus financial decision, not an airworthiness decision. Without an operational need for the rating, an operator may voluntarily forego ETOPS altogether in order to avoid the expense of maintaining the required system reliability levels. This would be no reflection whatsoever upon that operator's airworthiness standards.
ETOPS is a reliability matter, managed through compliance with specific service bulletins and airworthiness directives. ETOPS is not restricted to engines but involves a comprehensive assessment of all relevant on-board systems. The process is monitored through a reliability programme overseen by a reliability committee, has little to do with 'airworthiness' as a concept and nothing at all to do with pilots' working conditions. An ETOPS rating is reduced to a lower rating by the reliability committee reporting to the regulator that the reliability of any relevant on-board system, including but not limited to the engines, has fallen below the predictor figure. The regulator will approve restoration of the rating to its former level once satisfied that the relevant reliability level has been restored.
As BlueEagle already warned, please be sure of your facts before posting specific allegations.
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RTB
So the DFO, who is ultimately responsible for the safe operation of flight operations, recognized three years ago crews were arriving for flying duty ‘tired and disheveled’ = fatigued, largely as a result of the heavy rosters, AND they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
Yet his management response to this serious problem was to issue a notice to all crew NOT to arrive for duty ‘tired and disheveled’, without any change to the crews roster patterns.
Problem solved.
However when a captain stood up to him, he was victimized and sacked.
I look forward to using this approach to my next sim when the flight attendants advise there is an uncontrollable fire in the cabin, rather than remedying the problem, or diverting to the nearest airfield, I will simply write a notice to the senior flight attendant. ‘You will extinguish the fire immediately’, I will have the senior manager responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, the Captain, sign the notice, stamped with the authority of the company, and give it to the senior flight attendant. Problem solved. My responsibilities for the safe operation of the aircraft are complete.
Sims were never so easy, I’m sure I would get glowing reviews on my sim report.
Yet his management response to this serious problem was to issue a notice to all crew NOT to arrive for duty ‘tired and disheveled’, without any change to the crews roster patterns.
Problem solved.
However when a captain stood up to him, he was victimized and sacked.
I look forward to using this approach to my next sim when the flight attendants advise there is an uncontrollable fire in the cabin, rather than remedying the problem, or diverting to the nearest airfield, I will simply write a notice to the senior flight attendant. ‘You will extinguish the fire immediately’, I will have the senior manager responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, the Captain, sign the notice, stamped with the authority of the company, and give it to the senior flight attendant. Problem solved. My responsibilities for the safe operation of the aircraft are complete.
Sims were never so easy, I’m sure I would get glowing reviews on my sim report.
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Gezzuz Dark what are you smoking Bro?
Maybe the DFOs letter related to some of the local lads out shopping/eating in Dubai then reporting with out rest for LHR/BWN or maybe the odd expat known to commute from OZ straight to a duty-wouldnt be you would it?
5 days off now-what to do lah!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe the DFOs letter related to some of the local lads out shopping/eating in Dubai then reporting with out rest for LHR/BWN or maybe the odd expat known to commute from OZ straight to a duty-wouldnt be you would it?
5 days off now-what to do lah!!!!!!!!!!
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ETOPS Reduced From 180mins to 120mins?
No need to have a go at me BS, and I have not read up on IFSD or ETOPS. I leave that to the well informed technical experts such as yourself.
My simple point was that a lot of RBA aircraft seem to be landing in unexpected places, and that your words "silence is the best approach" could be a thought to worry about. Granted I could have made a better title, hope the above is an improvement.
Your last post has given us all much valid information, and I thank you for that.
But who is "the reliability committee" and what did happen to V8-RBK and what are the present ETOPS limits for RBA, 180 or 120 mins?
My simple point was that a lot of RBA aircraft seem to be landing in unexpected places, and that your words "silence is the best approach" could be a thought to worry about. Granted I could have made a better title, hope the above is an improvement.
Your last post has given us all much valid information, and I thank you for that.
But who is "the reliability committee" and what did happen to V8-RBK and what are the present ETOPS limits for RBA, 180 or 120 mins?
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ETOPS Reduced From 180mins to 120mins?
"ETOPS is not restricted to engines but involves a comprehensive assessment of all relevant ON BOARD-SYSTEMS"
May I ask if this includes Pilots? Due to the reduction in standards and the lack of experience in the crews, we have now had 2 recent occasions when engines have been shut down, when they should not have been.
In the last months we lost to SIN Cargo alone, directly or indirectly, a highly respected 767 Fleet Manager, 3 Senior Line Training Capt's, a highly respected Quality Officer and 2 maybe now 3 Line Capt's. Not to mention the numourous other departures to various other places within the last year.
Now it aint rocket sicence to know that when you are left with a top heavy workforce of inexpenienced crews rather than experenced crews, your incident and or accident rate is going to go UP, which is whats happening.
I hasten to add, its not the crews fault. They have been given the oppitunituy by RBA of becoming Capt's and FO's of 767's with experience levels that other airline would not accept.
May I ask if this includes Pilots? Due to the reduction in standards and the lack of experience in the crews, we have now had 2 recent occasions when engines have been shut down, when they should not have been.
In the last months we lost to SIN Cargo alone, directly or indirectly, a highly respected 767 Fleet Manager, 3 Senior Line Training Capt's, a highly respected Quality Officer and 2 maybe now 3 Line Capt's. Not to mention the numourous other departures to various other places within the last year.
Now it aint rocket sicence to know that when you are left with a top heavy workforce of inexpenienced crews rather than experenced crews, your incident and or accident rate is going to go UP, which is whats happening.
I hasten to add, its not the crews fault. They have been given the oppitunituy by RBA of becoming Capt's and FO's of 767's with experience levels that other airline would not accept.
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Just to avoid any confusion can you confirm that there is only one highly respected RBA 767 Fleet Manager joining SIN Cargo and his initials are DT. We wouldn't want SN getting ideas above his station would we.
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The Highly Respected 767 Fleet Manager
TA you are quite correct, the above described is indeed already employed by SIN Cargo.
The present 767 Fleet Manager, how shall we put this, who attracts somewhat less respect than his predecessor, and along with the DFO and DFM 767's are the subject of High Court action in Brunei.
I admire the Capt bringing the above case of victimization to court.
The present 767 Fleet Manager, how shall we put this, who attracts somewhat less respect than his predecessor, and along with the DFO and DFM 767's are the subject of High Court action in Brunei.
I admire the Capt bringing the above case of victimization to court.
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You must respect your managers you see. We might write our own rosters, pick and choose our trips and who we fly them with, and leave you oiks the crumbs from our table but you should be grateful for such crumbs - especially if you are approaching contract renewal - isnt it.
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Is there any news from the Brunei High court today. I believe that 3 very guilty parties are attempting to deflect the blame upon each other. So much for honour amongst thieves. Tw@ts the trio of you.
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JE Attended The Brunei High Court Yesterday
No doubt this Affidavit will be doing the rounds shortly. I got to know that there is still more evidence to be presented later.
RBA has still not presented ANY documents to support their defence.
RBA has still not presented ANY documents to support their defence.
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Leave it out!
Personally I am sick of the constant reference to the chronic lack of experience and dropping of standards........blah blah could not get jobs with other airlines due lack of relevant experience blah blah.
You people writing such things should remember that there are a lot of us here in the capital with half a brain and more than an ounce of professionalism.Stop venting your frustration at DFO's,DFM's and whoever else upset you into leaving or even worse, made you turn into a bitter individual without the cojones to leave.Your posts are doing nothing for a flagging morale.
Sure there has been alot of promotions of late, due to guys leaving for a variety of reasons (we are all leaving Brunei lets not forget...) but I am soooo sick of the posts that make it sound like it is a left seat free for all.Plenty of guys have not been able to make the transition.
It must of been nice to of started flying with 10,000 hours.
By the way, an open question to all you hairy chested steely eyed clutch cargo jawed legends...what is your definiton of an experienced pilot? Someone with less hours than yourself? Do tell.... 14U and Fat Albert...
You people writing such things should remember that there are a lot of us here in the capital with half a brain and more than an ounce of professionalism.Stop venting your frustration at DFO's,DFM's and whoever else upset you into leaving or even worse, made you turn into a bitter individual without the cojones to leave.Your posts are doing nothing for a flagging morale.
Sure there has been alot of promotions of late, due to guys leaving for a variety of reasons (we are all leaving Brunei lets not forget...) but I am soooo sick of the posts that make it sound like it is a left seat free for all.Plenty of guys have not been able to make the transition.
It must of been nice to of started flying with 10,000 hours.
By the way, an open question to all you hairy chested steely eyed clutch cargo jawed legends...what is your definiton of an experienced pilot? Someone with less hours than yourself? Do tell.... 14U and Fat Albert...