Orient Thai
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Orient Thai
Recently I knocked on the door of Orient Thai airlines and was told that if I go there with a 747 type rating and no time on aircraft but with a good attitude, I would be considered for a job. My question is: Why can't they find enough qualified people? They have been hiring for quite some time it looks like and now they are willing to hire without the 500 hours on type. What do you guys think my chances are? Thanks in advance.
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From what I've been told, the airplanes are marginally maintained, and SOP's do not exist. If you are desperate for a job, or need to build those precious heavy jet PIC time for the next job, this is probably the place for that. Good luck!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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The 747 pay is very low. About $5000 USD for Capt. and $3000 for F/O and F/E. You must provide your own accomodations in BKK. Roster doesn't allow for commuting. High turnover. Hajj. Many crews furloughed earlier this year. Operation uses local and foreign crews. Etc., etc., etc.
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Well, I know many will scorn me for this, but this is real good opportunity IMHO. This would be a true gem of a position for a recently retired captain or SFO from one of the mainline carriers in the west who has just left the 742/743. The pay is satisfactory and really, quiet frankly allows for a very high standard of living. Indeed, having spent 4 years based in bkk I can honestly say that such money being offered would facilitate even the most hedonistic of lifestyles. To put it into perspective... a QUALIFIED english teacher in Bkk at the moment is pulling in about 35000 - 40,000 B a month. This would allow for a reasonable standard of living - about the same as an average mid class western lifestyle. If you dont believe me, go ask them. The salary being offered by Orient Thai works out at 225,000 Baht Roughly speaking. So...go figure. I stand by it, despite previous counter replies, a good relatively centrally located apartment can be had for 10000 Baht a month. 15000 tops. I do know of at least 1 individual living close to the airport (about 15-20 km from Sukhumvit area) paying 6000Baht a month ( ~ $130 a month). This person has a 2 bedroom clean apartment with balcony and good security. This is the norm not the exception. And please, dont use on line apartment sites as guide prices - of course they are going to charge 4-5 more for next to the same thing. I am saying that with just a little bit of networking at a local level, excellent apartment rates can be had.
So frankly speaking, in summary, the type of person that these positions would most likely suit are
(a) A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside, and who is interested in making some more money in wonderful tropical environment. The main motivation should not be the money but the lifestyle that can be had and also the ability to remain current on the 742/743 and enjoy a nice variety of flying.
(b) A 742/743 rated individual who is presently looking for work and cannot secure a flying job in their home country/continent.
If you fit either of the above criteria, particularly (a), DONT bash the pay issue. Chances are such pay will allow you to live the highest standards you have ever lived before.
So frankly speaking, in summary, the type of person that these positions would most likely suit are
(a) A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside, and who is interested in making some more money in wonderful tropical environment. The main motivation should not be the money but the lifestyle that can be had and also the ability to remain current on the 742/743 and enjoy a nice variety of flying.
(b) A 742/743 rated individual who is presently looking for work and cannot secure a flying job in their home country/continent.
If you fit either of the above criteria, particularly (a), DONT bash the pay issue. Chances are such pay will allow you to live the highest standards you have ever lived before.
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Well well Topmann. If you can find an apartment for B6000 then I wonder if it is under a park bench. A nice house near the airport will cost you B40,000 a month exc utilities. I should know as I live in Bangkok. Remember the small issue of tax. 40% of income sound familiar. Get your facts straight my friend and if anyone who wishes to fly around in a Classic for a year or so , why not go somewhere where your experience and ability is recognised.
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Now that topman has given his reasons FOR, I will present the AGAINST.
(a) They are not paying MARKET price for any Captain, let alone an experienced B747 one;
(b) The miserable salary allows for "a very high standard of living", IF you are willing to expend ALL of it, and save NONE;
(c) Now HERE'S the teller, "A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside".
In other words, be prepared to have to dip into your savings, to subsidise this job.
(d) "A 742/743 rated individual who is presently looking for work and cannot secure a flying job in their home country/continent." Read for this, "Standards are at the bottom end of the scale - rejects welcome!!"
Why do those two sentences seem to contradict each other? "DONT bash the pay issue."...in other words, the pay is 
, followed by,
"Chances are such pay will allow you to live the highest standards you have ever lived before."...to be read as, "If you are a reject, EXTREMELY wealthy and willing to fork out some of your OWN money, or come from a country where rentals are about "~$130 a month", or less, then we can shaft you accordingly!
Orient Thai - YOU are the weakest link!
(a) They are not paying MARKET price for any Captain, let alone an experienced B747 one;
(b) The miserable salary allows for "a very high standard of living", IF you are willing to expend ALL of it, and save NONE;
(c) Now HERE'S the teller, "A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside".
In other words, be prepared to have to dip into your savings, to subsidise this job.
(d) "A 742/743 rated individual who is presently looking for work and cannot secure a flying job in their home country/continent." Read for this, "Standards are at the bottom end of the scale - rejects welcome!!"
DONT bash the pay issue. Chances are such pay will allow you to live the highest standards you have ever lived before.
, followed by, "Chances are such pay will allow you to live the highest standards you have ever lived before."...to be read as, "If you are a reject, EXTREMELY wealthy and willing to fork out some of your OWN money, or come from a country where rentals are about "~$130 a month", or less, then we can shaft you accordingly!
Orient Thai - YOU are the weakest link!
TM999;
Most retirees would like [or may need] to either;
a. retire [!] or
b. keep flying
If b. : most professionals would desire to work on well-maintained equipment in a company with reasonable safety standards. A fair salary comensurate with skill and experience would also be expected. However, I do understand that the opportunity work in your own particular idea of "paradise" may offset the salary issues if continuing flying is more important than monetary reward.
However, OX fails miserably on the equipment/safety/remuneration issues. Unless you desperately need to live in BKK and/or are equally in need of flying with a demonstrably shaky operation, then I wouldn't recommend the OX experience.
Now I will admit that I know and have known a few desperates who've given the OX a go. ALL have done a quick exit, citing a litany of outrageous safety breaches.
Dunno if I'd want that kinda thing in my retirement job. For the hours builder, remember, not all hours are treated equally by the more reputable prospective employers...
Most retirees would like [or may need] to either;
a. retire [!] or
b. keep flying
If b. : most professionals would desire to work on well-maintained equipment in a company with reasonable safety standards. A fair salary comensurate with skill and experience would also be expected. However, I do understand that the opportunity work in your own particular idea of "paradise" may offset the salary issues if continuing flying is more important than monetary reward.
However, OX fails miserably on the equipment/safety/remuneration issues. Unless you desperately need to live in BKK and/or are equally in need of flying with a demonstrably shaky operation, then I wouldn't recommend the OX experience.
Now I will admit that I know and have known a few desperates who've given the OX a go. ALL have done a quick exit, citing a litany of outrageous safety breaches.
Dunno if I'd want that kinda thing in my retirement job. For the hours builder, remember, not all hours are treated equally by the more reputable prospective employers...
Join Date: Nov 2003
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The income is taxed??? The Orient Thai advertisement suggests that potential applicants consider "your personal tax situation" when weighing the merits of OX. That would be somewhat misleading if in fact the Thai's were forcing foreign pilots to pay tax.
N4790P
I’m in no position to comment on Orient Thai, but I can on BKK living.
Acceptable apartments (and even houses) can be found for 6k per month providing you don’t mind living off the beaten track. However, unless you speak adequate Thai and have a means of transport then this isn’t really an option, more so if you have a family. However I don’t accept you need to pay 40K. Good accommodation can be readily found for less than half of this amount. Utilities can cost another 7-8K per month.
Additionally, the government recently announced that the current easing of work permit restrictions for foreign pilots would cease in about 1 year.
All foreign nationals working in Thailand pay income tax. (There are some exemptions but aviation isn’t one of them). Personal income tax is as follows based upon annual salary. It is worth noting that the tax is amortised over 12 months, so if employment finishes mid tax year you may have a problem.
In theory overpaid tax is recoverable, in practice it isn’t:-
1-80,000 baht =0
80,001 - 100,000 =5%
100,001 -500,000 =10%
500,001 -1,000,000 =20%
1,000,001 - 4,000,000 =30%
4,000,001 - and up =37%
Acceptable apartments (and even houses) can be found for 6k per month providing you don’t mind living off the beaten track. However, unless you speak adequate Thai and have a means of transport then this isn’t really an option, more so if you have a family. However I don’t accept you need to pay 40K. Good accommodation can be readily found for less than half of this amount. Utilities can cost another 7-8K per month.
Additionally, the government recently announced that the current easing of work permit restrictions for foreign pilots would cease in about 1 year.
All foreign nationals working in Thailand pay income tax. (There are some exemptions but aviation isn’t one of them). Personal income tax is as follows based upon annual salary. It is worth noting that the tax is amortised over 12 months, so if employment finishes mid tax year you may have a problem.
In theory overpaid tax is recoverable, in practice it isn’t:-
1-80,000 baht =0
80,001 - 100,000 =5%
100,001 -500,000 =10%
500,001 -1,000,000 =20%
1,000,001 - 4,000,000 =30%
4,000,001 - and up =37%
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Well chaps if you're divorced the kids have left home and never visit. The ex is sleeping with your old FO (Thank God) The good old company has given you a rolex (fake gold, batteries not included) and a pat on the back wispering good luck in your retirment. You've lost most of your cash on nightstops with loose women. Even the Flight attendants due for retirement won't sleep with you.
Well head on down to VTBD on an Annie 4A. Beers, Bar,girls
Jobs, licks and F word till you die. Sounds like me!!!!!!!!!!Errr!!! you guys got that address again??????????.
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From foreign worker....
"(c) Now HERE'S the teller, "A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside".
In other words, be prepared to have to dip into your savings, to subsidise this job."
U R incorrect. What I mean is that one cannot expect to come home after say 5 years (or any number of yrs in the relative short term for that matter) with a lot of money. I am not saying savings from the west will need to be touched, I am saying that this job will not provide much money for retirement IF the said pilot retires in the west.
I wonder how much UA, CX or BA pay their 747 captains. My guess is somewhere between $150k - $200k per yr. So in other words 3-4 times orient Thai, yet it is well known that cost of living in Hong Kong/London/Chicago is easily 10 times that of Bangkok. See where Im going...its called being relative. How could any western 747 pilot expect western 747 pilot wages in bkk given the above comparison. Its ridiculous. The present offer is at the very worst fair, and frankly speaking I think its a good offer.
Mgt are very approachable as well I am told
"(c) Now HERE'S the teller, "A retired 50+ captain or FO retired (ideally no major committments like kids!) with a decent bit of money put aside".
In other words, be prepared to have to dip into your savings, to subsidise this job."
U R incorrect. What I mean is that one cannot expect to come home after say 5 years (or any number of yrs in the relative short term for that matter) with a lot of money. I am not saying savings from the west will need to be touched, I am saying that this job will not provide much money for retirement IF the said pilot retires in the west.
I wonder how much UA, CX or BA pay their 747 captains. My guess is somewhere between $150k - $200k per yr. So in other words 3-4 times orient Thai, yet it is well known that cost of living in Hong Kong/London/Chicago is easily 10 times that of Bangkok. See where Im going...its called being relative. How could any western 747 pilot expect western 747 pilot wages in bkk given the above comparison. Its ridiculous. The present offer is at the very worst fair, and frankly speaking I think its a good offer.
Mgt are very approachable as well I am told
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" How could any western 747 pilot expect western 747 pilot wages in bkk?"
Because if they are looking for "western B747 qualified pilots", that is what they are going to have to pay.
Their retail pricing of their product reflects they charge "western prices"!!
Or are you saying that Orient Thai is just another Asian sweat shop!
From other posters on this thread, it seems to me that Orient Thai is being run on a shoestring, and is cutting corners wherever possible.
I, for one, would NOT want to be onboard any of their aircraft in ANY capacity, knowing this.
Because if they are looking for "western B747 qualified pilots", that is what they are going to have to pay.
Their retail pricing of their product reflects they charge "western prices"!!
Or are you saying that Orient Thai is just another Asian sweat shop!
From other posters on this thread, it seems to me that Orient Thai is being run on a shoestring, and is cutting corners wherever possible.
I, for one, would NOT want to be onboard any of their aircraft in ANY capacity, knowing this.
Topman,
Your salary packages for the big boys aren't close. However this is not about salary, if OX were a reasonably safe organisation your arguments would hold water. Unfortunately, the fact is that only Capt Wooblah makes a creditable argument in favour of joining.
By all means, go to BKK, I think it is a great place for some RnR, including a few beers with the nice approachable chaps of OX. As far as Orient Thai go as an airline; this is a Professional Pilots forum and you have my and others' professional opinions. Opinions based on 2nd hand, but trusted knowledge. Have to agree with FW's sentiments.
Your salary packages for the big boys aren't close. However this is not about salary, if OX were a reasonably safe organisation your arguments would hold water. Unfortunately, the fact is that only Capt Wooblah makes a creditable argument in favour of joining.
By all means, go to BKK, I think it is a great place for some RnR, including a few beers with the nice approachable chaps of OX. As far as Orient Thai go as an airline; this is a Professional Pilots forum and you have my and others' professional opinions. Opinions based on 2nd hand, but trusted knowledge. Have to agree with FW's sentiments.
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Accom
Toppman,
I appreciate your comments and Thailand is a great place to work and OX is a good company which is getting better. However, your prices on apartments are way out. I don't know what you expect to live in, but I won't live like a dog, because others do or will. If you are going to live here, do yourself a favour and gets some desent digs. Unless of course you are from Bangladesh and anything will do - perhaps share a room with 10 others....now there's an idea.
Reality, if you want something half decent, then you will shell out B20 000 for a decent place....minimum!
I appreciate your comments and Thailand is a great place to work and OX is a good company which is getting better. However, your prices on apartments are way out. I don't know what you expect to live in, but I won't live like a dog, because others do or will. If you are going to live here, do yourself a favour and gets some desent digs. Unless of course you are from Bangladesh and anything will do - perhaps share a room with 10 others....now there's an idea.
Reality, if you want something half decent, then you will shell out B20 000 for a decent place....minimum!
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i've just been down to bangkok and caught up with some orient thai blokes on the 757, if even half the stories are true i'd give it a wide wide bearth, certainly as an f/o. nothing about the company sounded good. quite a few furloughed us pilots, they have a few guys from good backgrounds as f/o's and some as capt's but the rest are appalling by all accounts. bangkok did seem very cheap though if thats any consilation.
