SIA Cargo Hiring!!!! (merged)
If you are interested and have children take note of Mach No post and the schooling allowance.
$700 / month. Now you can get a fine schooling in the local schools and that amount will cover fees. However - if you do not want the education system of Singapore and prefer international schools the sums are a tad different.
There are numerous international schools and all are in the same ball park figure of costs.
Yearly Grade 7 fees with all the "other" costs tagged on ( i.e. building fund levy).
s$19200 / year. So your monthly shortfall is just shy of s$1000. Then you got to get them there - bus is approx $150/ term plus a fair amount of taxi for all the afternoon activities - of course you can always buy a car ( ha ha ha ha ha on the freighter salary I hear you all chortle) - as a guesstimate to run a car here - you can count on S$1500 - S$1700 - all in. If you have three kids forget it - you will not make ends meet, and you will probably end up having to send the family back to your homeland.
$700 / month. Now you can get a fine schooling in the local schools and that amount will cover fees. However - if you do not want the education system of Singapore and prefer international schools the sums are a tad different.
There are numerous international schools and all are in the same ball park figure of costs.
Yearly Grade 7 fees with all the "other" costs tagged on ( i.e. building fund levy).
s$19200 / year. So your monthly shortfall is just shy of s$1000. Then you got to get them there - bus is approx $150/ term plus a fair amount of taxi for all the afternoon activities - of course you can always buy a car ( ha ha ha ha ha on the freighter salary I hear you all chortle) - as a guesstimate to run a car here - you can count on S$1500 - S$1700 - all in. If you have three kids forget it - you will not make ends meet, and you will probably end up having to send the family back to your homeland.
Last edited by CDRW; 25th Nov 2003 at 08:08.
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For those who intent on applying to SQ Cargo, it pays to read the following :
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=110087
The t&c at this outfit will changes at the drop of a hat, depending on which side of the bed some acting minister wakes up on.
You have been warned, try not to end up like a bunch of twisted and angry people who currently work here.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=110087
The t&c at this outfit will changes at the drop of a hat, depending on which side of the bed some acting minister wakes up on.
You have been warned, try not to end up like a bunch of twisted and angry people who currently work here.
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Sweet and Sour
Hmmm,
I think the negative posts do a good job of summing up life in SIA and SIN. It costs a lot of money to join - bond, house & school deposits, moving costs and the like that you all know about. It costs all of your money to live here - how it breaks down just depends on how you like to live, but it will take all your money, and you'll always be explaining to "Her Indoors" why all these days away are not translating into spare cash for family fun!
As one who is close to leaving, I can tell you for me that it is not about the work or the guys I go to work with (they're great), but about money and the unremitting anti-pilot stance of the government and very senior management.
To make Singapore able to stay competitive in the face of the improving abilities of its competitors, the government has decided to reduce Spore's cost base in general and fixed elements of salary in particular. To do this it needs all the unions to be springloaded to the obedient position. It sees the "a labourer is worthy of his hire..." approach of the pilot's union to be a direct challenge. All the signs are there that other current 'benefits' are under scrutiny. I can hardly wait! And probably won't.
I can hear some of you saying "Well if you are too expensive to be competitive, then you should be prepared to take a pay cut. The greater good and all that." Indeed. It's a matter of balance, staff welfare and the market. There are few airline groups making S$100 million a month profit as SIA does and even fewer paying all their staff substantially below the market rate. SIA's policy is even more perverse - it is actully content that the flood of "expensive" long-time, experienced mainline pilots that are leaving can be replaced by "cheap" cargo pilots. I seem to recall a core value that has something to do with 'Concern for Staff'.
Just in case you think I'm just worrying over nothing, at a time when the company is making S$100 million profit per month, I, like many others, have seen the value of my contract (sic) with SIA decrease in excess of 30%. Given the cost of living in SIN, the devaluation of the currency (around 20%, I believe, this year against most the world's major currencies) I simply cannot justify spending my earning days this way. Yes, the kit and colleagues are great, but what about quality of life, saving for the future, for pension....? This is the reality of my experience. It could be yours.
Of course, everybody's circumstances are unique. If you come to SCargo you'll fly a decent airplane, well maintained, do lots of flying and eat and drink down-route with good guys. Cargo line management and the DFO are quite OK and there will be opportunities for seat swaps and training in reasonably short time.
If your family moves easily, and is flexible, the chances are good that they will settle quickly and really enjoy living in Singapore - good food, good schools, low crime, safe streets.
Summary - If you don't need money, don't mind the tension of a working culture where your employer is routinely in breach of the spirit, to say nothing of the letter, of the contract they have signed with you, then for a short time this may be the place for you. I would only counsel that you are very realistic about what you need to make working here sustainable.
G'luck and as DUB ATC said when asked about the wx "If your half as good as the other man you'll be fine!"
I think the negative posts do a good job of summing up life in SIA and SIN. It costs a lot of money to join - bond, house & school deposits, moving costs and the like that you all know about. It costs all of your money to live here - how it breaks down just depends on how you like to live, but it will take all your money, and you'll always be explaining to "Her Indoors" why all these days away are not translating into spare cash for family fun!
As one who is close to leaving, I can tell you for me that it is not about the work or the guys I go to work with (they're great), but about money and the unremitting anti-pilot stance of the government and very senior management.
To make Singapore able to stay competitive in the face of the improving abilities of its competitors, the government has decided to reduce Spore's cost base in general and fixed elements of salary in particular. To do this it needs all the unions to be springloaded to the obedient position. It sees the "a labourer is worthy of his hire..." approach of the pilot's union to be a direct challenge. All the signs are there that other current 'benefits' are under scrutiny. I can hardly wait! And probably won't.
I can hear some of you saying "Well if you are too expensive to be competitive, then you should be prepared to take a pay cut. The greater good and all that." Indeed. It's a matter of balance, staff welfare and the market. There are few airline groups making S$100 million a month profit as SIA does and even fewer paying all their staff substantially below the market rate. SIA's policy is even more perverse - it is actully content that the flood of "expensive" long-time, experienced mainline pilots that are leaving can be replaced by "cheap" cargo pilots. I seem to recall a core value that has something to do with 'Concern for Staff'.
Just in case you think I'm just worrying over nothing, at a time when the company is making S$100 million profit per month, I, like many others, have seen the value of my contract (sic) with SIA decrease in excess of 30%. Given the cost of living in SIN, the devaluation of the currency (around 20%, I believe, this year against most the world's major currencies) I simply cannot justify spending my earning days this way. Yes, the kit and colleagues are great, but what about quality of life, saving for the future, for pension....? This is the reality of my experience. It could be yours.
Of course, everybody's circumstances are unique. If you come to SCargo you'll fly a decent airplane, well maintained, do lots of flying and eat and drink down-route with good guys. Cargo line management and the DFO are quite OK and there will be opportunities for seat swaps and training in reasonably short time.
If your family moves easily, and is flexible, the chances are good that they will settle quickly and really enjoy living in Singapore - good food, good schools, low crime, safe streets.
Summary - If you don't need money, don't mind the tension of a working culture where your employer is routinely in breach of the spirit, to say nothing of the letter, of the contract they have signed with you, then for a short time this may be the place for you. I would only counsel that you are very realistic about what you need to make working here sustainable.
G'luck and as DUB ATC said when asked about the wx "If your half as good as the other man you'll be fine!"
SIA cargo
Hello,
I am not really interested but I have received the terms and conditions of employment with SIA cargo....I have to say that I was shocked about the salaries and the conditions for both Capts and FOs!!!!!
Does anyone knows how many desparate pilots have applied?
I now fell very sorry for anyone having to sign such a f***** contract........
Cheers....
I am not really interested but I have received the terms and conditions of employment with SIA cargo....I have to say that I was shocked about the salaries and the conditions for both Capts and FOs!!!!!
Does anyone knows how many desparate pilots have applied?
I now fell very sorry for anyone having to sign such a f***** contract........
Cheers....
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74world
For the benefit of the pro and mostly contra discussion could you share the content of the contract say...on this forum (if pprune would allow it) I am curious as hell and I am sure a lot of other guys too.
To Tiller Torquer,
Did you complete the 5 year tour of duty ? and moving on now?
Well said piece of advise and good luck to wherever you're goin to!
Freightdriver, (has been and probably will continue to be....)
For the benefit of the pro and mostly contra discussion could you share the content of the contract say...on this forum (if pprune would allow it) I am curious as hell and I am sure a lot of other guys too.
To Tiller Torquer,
Did you complete the 5 year tour of duty ? and moving on now?
Well said piece of advise and good luck to wherever you're goin to!
Freightdriver, (has been and probably will continue to be....)
SIA terms and conditions...
Hi Freightdriver,
I'm sorry but I have tried to attached on this reply the ACTUAL crap that I've received from Singapore airlines regarding the terms and conditions of employment but it didn't work!!!!!
If you want me to send it to you then email me at this address:
[email protected]
I will send you the info, but believe me, it's really s***!!!!
I don't know how much you are earning with your job, but to join SIA you really need to be desperate.......for ex, an FO with my current company earns more than a Capt in SIA and we don't have to live in Singapore.
Cheers.....
I'm sorry but I have tried to attached on this reply the ACTUAL crap that I've received from Singapore airlines regarding the terms and conditions of employment but it didn't work!!!!!
If you want me to send it to you then email me at this address:
[email protected]
I will send you the info, but believe me, it's really s***!!!!
I don't know how much you are earning with your job, but to join SIA you really need to be desperate.......for ex, an FO with my current company earns more than a Capt in SIA and we don't have to live in Singapore.
Cheers.....
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FreightDriver
I notice you and others mentioning the attractive higher salaries offered by SIA Cargo. Please look at this rationally by comparing the standard of living you can expect in the required location based on the take home salary.
As you are located in Indonesia you will understand that a Garuda Captains salary would make him a pauper in Singapore but he lives like a King in Indonesia enjoying a much higher standard of living than a "Mainline" Singapore Airlines Captain. The value of any salary is only applicable to the cost of living of where you are located and it is wrong to makes comparisons with salaries elsewhere in the world.
By the way there will be no transport allowances for those in SIA Cargo, you make your own way to work and no First Officers will be employed on Expat Terms.
I'm in a bit of a rush presently but will try and provide some more information at a later time provided I have not left SIA by then.
I notice you and others mentioning the attractive higher salaries offered by SIA Cargo. Please look at this rationally by comparing the standard of living you can expect in the required location based on the take home salary.
As you are located in Indonesia you will understand that a Garuda Captains salary would make him a pauper in Singapore but he lives like a King in Indonesia enjoying a much higher standard of living than a "Mainline" Singapore Airlines Captain. The value of any salary is only applicable to the cost of living of where you are located and it is wrong to makes comparisons with salaries elsewhere in the world.
By the way there will be no transport allowances for those in SIA Cargo, you make your own way to work and no First Officers will be employed on Expat Terms.
I'm in a bit of a rush presently but will try and provide some more information at a later time provided I have not left SIA by then.
SIA
Hi Mantaro 85,
To answer your questions, I am working for a cargo airline, FO on a 744, the base is Europe and my net pay this year is 46.000 British pounds NET + Expenses......
You can see that I can not be interested at all by the SIA cargo pay and conditions even as a Capt.
Good luck to you anyway if you can afford to work for them, I can't!
Cheers....
To answer your questions, I am working for a cargo airline, FO on a 744, the base is Europe and my net pay this year is 46.000 British pounds NET + Expenses......
You can see that I can not be interested at all by the SIA cargo pay and conditions even as a Capt.
Good luck to you anyway if you can afford to work for them, I can't!
Cheers....
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SIA Cargo Hiring!!!!
I just received that interview date and the T & C's! I was stunned at what they are offering.............crumbs really! I for one would not work for that and feel sorry for those that do.......!
Funny how the average person's perception of SQ is so high and those of us in the industry have a completely different view of them! I can make more money flying a dhc-6 on floats than what cargo pays any of their pilots............
We live in sad times....
Funny how the average person's perception of SQ is so high and those of us in the industry have a completely different view of them! I can make more money flying a dhc-6 on floats than what cargo pays any of their pilots............
We live in sad times....
Pitotman - you are absolutely correct - to Joe Public SQ is held in very high regard and for very good reason. It is one of the best services in the world and people will pay the premium to fly SQ. Business and first class are nearly always full with full fare paying punters.
However to work for them - thats a different story - on par with Aeroflot, but if enough prospective pilots to their cargo operation and shortly the recruitment of more 777 drivers, tell them exactly what they think of the package then things may change - but not until a service fails to go will anything be done about the situation.
However to work for them - thats a different story - on par with Aeroflot, but if enough prospective pilots to their cargo operation and shortly the recruitment of more 777 drivers, tell them exactly what they think of the package then things may change - but not until a service fails to go will anything be done about the situation.
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As an ex expat with SIA for ten years my 'take' on this is a bit different.
I don't think they really want your average Westerner, accustomed to Western pay scales. I think they are planning to fill the vacancies with lads from Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka etc. for whom the pay will be acceptable.
SIA have access to all the current pilot markets and can gear their offering to the market they wish to attract. If the terms and conditions are not to your liking I don't think they want you!
Sorry, just the devil's advocate coming out. I do believe that SIA are treating their work force very badly and seriously need to get their act together if they don't want to lose the plot and their passengers completely.
I don't think they really want your average Westerner, accustomed to Western pay scales. I think they are planning to fill the vacancies with lads from Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka etc. for whom the pay will be acceptable.
SIA have access to all the current pilot markets and can gear their offering to the market they wish to attract. If the terms and conditions are not to your liking I don't think they want you!
Sorry, just the devil's advocate coming out. I do believe that SIA are treating their work force very badly and seriously need to get their act together if they don't want to lose the plot and their passengers completely.
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Blue Eagle,
U are absolutely correct. The pilots SQ will be looking at are mainly the ones not type-rated and will be willing to get a rating for low pay and be bonded for 5 years. The training practically doesn't cost SQ anything as it'll be done in-house and the 5-year bond is what SQ wants. However, don't be tricked into believing the contract will not be changed (for worse) midway, simply ask SQ pilots who happened to be employed during 2003.
U are absolutely correct. The pilots SQ will be looking at are mainly the ones not type-rated and will be willing to get a rating for low pay and be bonded for 5 years. The training practically doesn't cost SQ anything as it'll be done in-house and the 5-year bond is what SQ wants. However, don't be tricked into believing the contract will not be changed (for worse) midway, simply ask SQ pilots who happened to be employed during 2003.
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Well...I do miss getting to Singapore as I used to. And the wings are ceratinly good at Hooters on the river.
Of course,China Airlines 744 pilots pick up a Singapore Freighter starting this month as the last 747-200 gets parked.
Can you leave an application at Hooter's????
Of course,China Airlines 744 pilots pick up a Singapore Freighter starting this month as the last 747-200 gets parked.
Can you leave an application at Hooter's????