SIA Cargo Hiring!!!! (merged)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freightdriver
Before signing a contract,you should make a "balance sheet"
of outgoing versus incoming funds, like I did before moving to
SIN. Very helpful indeed.
Maybe I can give you some typical expenses :
Housing : S$ 3500-5000 for a standard appartment
(+Guarantee 2 months cash upfront)
You are banned from living in HDB flats, only for locals.
School fee : S$ 8000-10000 per child per semester
so twice a year this amount
(+Guarantee 1 semester per child cash upfront)
Energy bill : Typical S$300-500
Transport :
(How many pilots can afford a car ?)
Food:
Luxury items like TV cable :
Many things to look into ....
Anyway good luck with your decision
Please correct me if any statements are wrong
gb
Before signing a contract,you should make a "balance sheet"
of outgoing versus incoming funds, like I did before moving to
SIN. Very helpful indeed.
Maybe I can give you some typical expenses :
Housing : S$ 3500-5000 for a standard appartment
(+Guarantee 2 months cash upfront)
You are banned from living in HDB flats, only for locals.
School fee : S$ 8000-10000 per child per semester
so twice a year this amount
(+Guarantee 1 semester per child cash upfront)
Energy bill : Typical S$300-500
Transport :
(How many pilots can afford a car ?)
Food:
Luxury items like TV cable :
Many things to look into ....
Anyway good luck with your decision
Please correct me if any statements are wrong
gb
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents...
Please don't get me wrong, just because I am going to apply that I will risk everything for the sake of getting a 747-400 type on my license...and no I don't need a new toy.
If they do make an offer, I will study it with care and make a decision based on the offer put on the table. Yes I agree with everyone that there are better companies out there to work for, incl. CAL so if you work there PM me and I will give you my details so you could ask someone in the HRD why they have not reply to my application.
YOu are right Singapore is not cheap, but keep in mind living in Jakarta the past 1.5 years I can adjut my living standards a bit...
like apt: sin$ 2200 (furnished) fernwood terrace off the ECP, nice neighbourhood...
Kids are 4 y/o and an a baby...the local school system is based on the U.K. system (high standard) and transferable to the U.S. and any countries in the region.
Yes I am very concern about the treatment of local and expat pilots during and post SARS, and it may be the one reason I will not take the offer of employment but like I said..I still would like to try and see what they are offering (contract terms etc.) unless someone is willing to share a copy of a recent SIA CARGO terms and condition.
Again I am still keepin my options open and I am quite happy at my present situation, but like other pilots before me I like to move on to better and bigger things (equipment and salary)...One of the purpose of this site is to exchange useful information (a bit of gossip) and for me to field test what seem to be a good idea in my head at the time...
Please don't get me wrong, just because I am going to apply that I will risk everything for the sake of getting a 747-400 type on my license...and no I don't need a new toy.If they do make an offer, I will study it with care and make a decision based on the offer put on the table. Yes I agree with everyone that there are better companies out there to work for, incl. CAL so if you work there PM me and I will give you my details so you could ask someone in the HRD why they have not reply to my application.
YOu are right Singapore is not cheap, but keep in mind living in Jakarta the past 1.5 years I can adjut my living standards a bit...
like apt: sin$ 2200 (furnished) fernwood terrace off the ECP, nice neighbourhood...
Kids are 4 y/o and an a baby...the local school system is based on the U.K. system (high standard) and transferable to the U.S. and any countries in the region.
Yes I am very concern about the treatment of local and expat pilots during and post SARS, and it may be the one reason I will not take the offer of employment but like I said..I still would like to try and see what they are offering (contract terms etc.) unless someone is willing to share a copy of a recent SIA CARGO terms and condition.
Again I am still keepin my options open and I am quite happy at my present situation, but like other pilots before me I like to move on to better and bigger things (equipment and salary)...One of the purpose of this site is to exchange useful information (a bit of gossip) and for me to field test what seem to be a good idea in my head at the time...
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freightdriver Sure Fernwood is convenient. The No 36 Bus stops right outside which will take you straight to the airport cos you won't be able to afford the taxi fare and don't even think of getting a car on that salary!!!
For $2200 a month furnished, it must be pretty small. Remember one step out of line in SQ and your $60000 Bank Guarantee is a goner and SQ , once you are trapped there can change your T &C,s downwards. Just see what they have done to Mainline.
As for a Command then you can forget that. The number of expats promoted to the LHS is very small indeed.
Best of luck.
For $2200 a month furnished, it must be pretty small. Remember one step out of line in SQ and your $60000 Bank Guarantee is a goner and SQ , once you are trapped there can change your T &C,s downwards. Just see what they have done to Mainline.
As for a Command then you can forget that. The number of expats promoted to the LHS is very small indeed.
Best of luck.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Here
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
freightdriver
you sound like a sensible fellow.
good luck, but i think sia cargo are going to screw you either way.
i have a mate there - mainline.
called him about my appl to sia cargo; yes, shocking but true, even i put one in.
the word from inside is not good, and i can assure you i am not crapping when i say, it isn't for me, what-ever they offer!
my man is at the very top of expat heaven in sia, and i have no reason to doubt him now, or question his motives in dispensing his solemn advice, after all these years.
that said, you go ahead and check it out.
one thing i am wary of with sia cargo is that if any of my other 5 potential job offers come home to roost, or, pray tell, my home country, home town, type-specific, Godsend newstart operation asks me to "come on down" from all these years in limbo, aka an un-named se asian country, I should have to decline their generous offer as my ass would be in a sling at sia.
("hmmm, singapore sling...that's funny.")
it's definitely something to think of, even though it may not apply to you, directly, at this point in your life.
bear in mind the empirical evidence available whereby sia has chased down 'runners' to the ends of the earth, at times.
before you even start, they fully intend to keep the bond/bank guarantee if you fail a check, or are chased out of town - through a check failure - if you dare go sick too many times/object to the workload/resist in any way.
so i guess it comes down to this:
if you can take the pain, they can take the shiit, as they happily ram their hairless knobs squarely up your ars.
this is a reality check, and i guess it doesn't sound that great.
nonetheless, it's not just rhetoric; it's real.
but hey, good luck buddy.
really.
you sound like a sensible fellow.
good luck, but i think sia cargo are going to screw you either way.
i have a mate there - mainline.
called him about my appl to sia cargo; yes, shocking but true, even i put one in.
the word from inside is not good, and i can assure you i am not crapping when i say, it isn't for me, what-ever they offer!
my man is at the very top of expat heaven in sia, and i have no reason to doubt him now, or question his motives in dispensing his solemn advice, after all these years.
that said, you go ahead and check it out.
one thing i am wary of with sia cargo is that if any of my other 5 potential job offers come home to roost, or, pray tell, my home country, home town, type-specific, Godsend newstart operation asks me to "come on down" from all these years in limbo, aka an un-named se asian country, I should have to decline their generous offer as my ass would be in a sling at sia.
("hmmm, singapore sling...that's funny.")
it's definitely something to think of, even though it may not apply to you, directly, at this point in your life.
bear in mind the empirical evidence available whereby sia has chased down 'runners' to the ends of the earth, at times.
before you even start, they fully intend to keep the bond/bank guarantee if you fail a check, or are chased out of town - through a check failure - if you dare go sick too many times/object to the workload/resist in any way.
so i guess it comes down to this:
if you can take the pain, they can take the shiit, as they happily ram their hairless knobs squarely up your ars.
this is a reality check, and i guess it doesn't sound that great.
nonetheless, it's not just rhetoric; it's real.
but hey, good luck buddy.
really.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rental of apartments have dropped over the years, so the figure here a bit high, if you shop around, its easy to get a average size apartment for less than SGD$2k.
Taxi to airport is non-issue, cos company pays. If you stay in the Eastern part (NEar SIA Training Centre) Taxi to airport probably cost about $6.
Cars in Singapore, that the expensive part. A mid size 1.5l Mitsubishi Lancer cost about $70,000, add in road tax of $1000 annually, Insurance of $1500 annually, Petrol at average $1.20 per litre, you'll burn money faster than a 744 burning its fuel.
(All figures in SGD). Forget about your Lexus or BMW, its cost more than $150000 in Singapore.
Salary in SQ is not the highest, but beats most regionals hands down.
Main problem is adapting to the management style here. Unions here are unlike the West, where you can don't fly and go on strike to drive your message through, do that in Singapore and they'll pack you in the lastest A345 to send you home the fastest possible time.
Taxi to airport is non-issue, cos company pays. If you stay in the Eastern part (NEar SIA Training Centre) Taxi to airport probably cost about $6.
Cars in Singapore, that the expensive part. A mid size 1.5l Mitsubishi Lancer cost about $70,000, add in road tax of $1000 annually, Insurance of $1500 annually, Petrol at average $1.20 per litre, you'll burn money faster than a 744 burning its fuel.
(All figures in SGD). Forget about your Lexus or BMW, its cost more than $150000 in Singapore.
Salary in SQ is not the highest, but beats most regionals hands down.
Main problem is adapting to the management style here. Unions here are unlike the West, where you can don't fly and go on strike to drive your message through, do that in Singapore and they'll pack you in the lastest A345 to send you home the fastest possible time.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sq111 Sure I agree that rental prices have come down of late but I do not agree with you that $2000 per month gets you a nice place that you would want to live in with a 4 year old and baby like Freightdriver!!
Do we know that SQ Cargo are paying the taxi allowance as part of this Cargo deal??
Even if so on the salary being offered freightdriver will need to take the Bus to work and put the taxi allowance to add to his mediocre salary.
Sure again regional airlines pay even less but they are aiming for Local Pilots on local salaries. Why be anexpat with all the insecurity that goes with living far from home for a pittance??
Rental allowances and ALL benefits in kind like ID90 and so called free annual ticket are taxed as a benefit and you pay for medical renewals and licence renewal every 6 months to boot!!
Do we know that SQ Cargo are paying the taxi allowance as part of this Cargo deal??
Even if so on the salary being offered freightdriver will need to take the Bus to work and put the taxi allowance to add to his mediocre salary.
Sure again regional airlines pay even less but they are aiming for Local Pilots on local salaries. Why be anexpat with all the insecurity that goes with living far from home for a pittance??
Rental allowances and ALL benefits in kind like ID90 and so called free annual ticket are taxed as a benefit and you pay for medical renewals and licence renewal every 6 months to boot!!
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sq111
Perhaps in the sylvan uplands of your dreams, SQ pays for taxis to work on the 24 hour basis which you imply. However, in the gritty reality of life at the SQ mast, the deal in “mainline” is as follows:
“Taxis will be provided when pilots are required to report for flying duties (including aircraft base training) between midnight and 0700 hrs, or return home from duty between 2300 and 0600 hrs.”
I remain unconvinced of any proposition which would indicate that the SIA Cargo taxi policy will be anymore generous than the above.
happie
Please take the trouble to skip back a page or so on this thread and all will be revealed.
Perhaps in the sylvan uplands of your dreams, SQ pays for taxis to work on the 24 hour basis which you imply. However, in the gritty reality of life at the SQ mast, the deal in “mainline” is as follows:
“Taxis will be provided when pilots are required to report for flying duties (including aircraft base training) between midnight and 0700 hrs, or return home from duty between 2300 and 0600 hrs.”
I remain unconvinced of any proposition which would indicate that the SIA Cargo taxi policy will be anymore generous than the above.
happie
Please take the trouble to skip back a page or so on this thread and all will be revealed.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Earth
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not only is the pay peanuts, you'll get treated like a monkey!
Since I have been with SIA this is what has happened to my pay (all of these supposedly in my contract-ha ha):
-loss of provident fund (10%)
-pay cut (16.5%) SARS as an excuse-already back in profit
-no pay leave
-7% pay cut after 9/11 even though the company made over 1 billion dollars (sing). (not repaid)
-loss of 6% increment
-2 1/2 yr protracted negotiation over the last collective agreement. Probable further cuts in the current negotiations for the CA to be concluded by March 31st.
Singapore supposedly prides itself on lack of graft and corruption, and in today's paper SIA was 3rd in Singapore in rating of corporate governance. What a crock. They are a bunch of liars and cheats only interested in profits so they can pay dividends to Temasek Holdings-the biggest shareholder-government owned, of course. The employees are mere chattle.
If you are still interested, before you even draw your first pay cheque, be prepared to put down a $45,000 sing bank guarantee for 5 years (if you are not type rated)+a paper guarantee of $120,000 on top of that. Add 2 months housing deposit and school fees deposit and you are 60 to 70 thousand in the hole already. You can buy a car now on 100% credit, but you will be in negative equity on it for at least 3 years. Remember that when you buy car insurance and if you write the car off you still owe money to the bank!
Still interested? You really want that type rating? O.K.:
-captain's salary $8,000 (all figures in sing $)
-housing $3,000 month married/$2,750 single (taxable)
-school fees up to $700 month for each child (maximum 2) (taxable)
-productivity 0-70 hrs $45 hour/71-100 $67.50 hour/positioning $22.50 hour
-2.5% annual increment
-13 month pay
-profit sharing (ha ha-good luck for the next couple of years)
-4 weeks annual leave
-1 firm Y upgradable to J for you and family per year
-unlimited I.D. 75s (Y only) (because it's a cargo outfit stupid!)
-4 I.D. 90s (Y only) for you and family (again-because it's a cargo outfit stupid!)
You'll be around the 20% tax bracket. I'm not going to do the sums for you. Good luck, you'll need it! I'm outta here, too tired of being treated like a monkey.
Since I have been with SIA this is what has happened to my pay (all of these supposedly in my contract-ha ha):
-loss of provident fund (10%)
-pay cut (16.5%) SARS as an excuse-already back in profit
-no pay leave
-7% pay cut after 9/11 even though the company made over 1 billion dollars (sing). (not repaid)
-loss of 6% increment
-2 1/2 yr protracted negotiation over the last collective agreement. Probable further cuts in the current negotiations for the CA to be concluded by March 31st.
Singapore supposedly prides itself on lack of graft and corruption, and in today's paper SIA was 3rd in Singapore in rating of corporate governance. What a crock. They are a bunch of liars and cheats only interested in profits so they can pay dividends to Temasek Holdings-the biggest shareholder-government owned, of course. The employees are mere chattle.
If you are still interested, before you even draw your first pay cheque, be prepared to put down a $45,000 sing bank guarantee for 5 years (if you are not type rated)+a paper guarantee of $120,000 on top of that. Add 2 months housing deposit and school fees deposit and you are 60 to 70 thousand in the hole already. You can buy a car now on 100% credit, but you will be in negative equity on it for at least 3 years. Remember that when you buy car insurance and if you write the car off you still owe money to the bank!
Still interested? You really want that type rating? O.K.:
-captain's salary $8,000 (all figures in sing $)
-housing $3,000 month married/$2,750 single (taxable)
-school fees up to $700 month for each child (maximum 2) (taxable)
-productivity 0-70 hrs $45 hour/71-100 $67.50 hour/positioning $22.50 hour
-2.5% annual increment
-13 month pay
-profit sharing (ha ha-good luck for the next couple of years)
-4 weeks annual leave
-1 firm Y upgradable to J for you and family per year
-unlimited I.D. 75s (Y only) (because it's a cargo outfit stupid!)
-4 I.D. 90s (Y only) for you and family (again-because it's a cargo outfit stupid!)
You'll be around the 20% tax bracket. I'm not going to do the sums for you. Good luck, you'll need it! I'm outta here, too tired of being treated like a monkey.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
freightdriver
Please take note of the post from Mack Number in which he gives a sketch of life both in SQ “mainline” and the "new airline", SIA Cargo – he’s absolutely spot on! Please also consider that you are applying for an FO position in SIA Cargo, which attracts no housing and education allowance and far less salary/productivity allowance than captain positions and, in this new entity, SIA Cargo, will attract even less than your “mainline” FO compatriots.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that the 45 cadets currently under training in Australia and all destined for SIA Cargo, have been obliged to undertake not to join Alpa-S and so not give this separate company the headache which the “mainline” company has, of discussing pay and conditions periodically, rather than arbitrarily dictating them to a bonded serfdom.
Mack Number
Great post and if you haven’t got outta Singapore by the time you read this, keep ‘em coming!
Please take note of the post from Mack Number in which he gives a sketch of life both in SQ “mainline” and the "new airline", SIA Cargo – he’s absolutely spot on! Please also consider that you are applying for an FO position in SIA Cargo, which attracts no housing and education allowance and far less salary/productivity allowance than captain positions and, in this new entity, SIA Cargo, will attract even less than your “mainline” FO compatriots.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that the 45 cadets currently under training in Australia and all destined for SIA Cargo, have been obliged to undertake not to join Alpa-S and so not give this separate company the headache which the “mainline” company has, of discussing pay and conditions periodically, rather than arbitrarily dictating them to a bonded serfdom.
Mack Number
Great post and if you haven’t got outta Singapore by the time you read this, keep ‘em coming!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: singapore
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIA Contracts
To all those out there considering SIA mailine or Cargo;" YOU MUST BE MAD"
Read the threads 'very carefully'.
Some of you may be hungry; you will be hungrier and very p...... off in a short time once you join.
Do yourselves a favour and apply elsewhere to someone who might treat you better.
Read the threads 'very carefully'.
Some of you may be hungry; you will be hungrier and very p...... off in a short time once you join.
Do yourselves a favour and apply elsewhere to someone who might treat you better.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: sunny country
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More than 50 replies during two weeks, several complaints, advices and all information required... for nothing
. Well, CL check the Far East index and you can get some details.
. Well, CL check the Far East index and you can get some details.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sillypore
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and don't forget to read about the impending 'showdown' between David (us) and 
Goliath (s'pore govt)
that should give you a good idea of how the govt will deal with 'confrontational' pilots.
Goliath (s'pore govt)that should give you a good idea of how the govt will deal with 'confrontational' pilots.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok..ok.. 
First things first, thank you to all that have replied in a positive note.
To say the least, I am very discouraged at this point and that includes my better half. Considering that I am very vocal and have in the past active in starting a pilot group movement in taking a stance aggainst bad company policies in my former life...
It's just too bad that SIA management do not realize what they are loosing by adapting this attitude towards the pilot group....given, that we are a hard crowd to please but at the end of the day we are a smart bunch that knows what needs to be done when the tough gets going...and when it's time to tighten our belts...
etops777
I will take up your generous offer on CAL info I will pm you.
My present gig is ideal exept salary and equipment, hired as a local (dual national)..but living like a king in Jakarta, can't afford a vacation outside the national border coz of this thing called currency conversion....
Comes home almost every night...short flights nver more than 4 landings in one sched.
But like I have said, it would be nice to move on to a better equipment and salary...my kids will eventually grow up and I have to send them to college....not to mention the dream of showing them the world on free travel pass...ok ok...I will wake up now and smell the rotten roses....
But I am sure something will turn up, so for those that have old books on FMS or fancy equipment in the aircraft thay don't need anymore pls send them my way...
BTW, the apt for 2200SIN$ per mo is a 3 bedroom / 2 bath apt with a full kitchen. Master bedroom is 4X4m and the 2 smaller room is 3X3. Living and Dining is in one open space (not sure on size) but must be round 4X8m..kitchen and laundy room is separated...I sound like a realtor..
Ironic, a mate of mine was living there for 3 years he worked there for a flg airline (neighbouring country) as line engineer (got paid sin$6000/ mo and they pay for the apt and schooling for up to 2 kids)
First things first, thank you to all that have replied in a positive note.
To say the least, I am very discouraged at this point and that includes my better half. Considering that I am very vocal and have in the past active in starting a pilot group movement in taking a stance aggainst bad company policies in my former life...
It's just too bad that SIA management do not realize what they are loosing by adapting this attitude towards the pilot group....given, that we are a hard crowd to please but at the end of the day we are a smart bunch that knows what needs to be done when the tough gets going...and when it's time to tighten our belts...
etops777
I will take up your generous offer on CAL info I will pm you.
My present gig is ideal exept salary and equipment, hired as a local (dual national)..but living like a king in Jakarta, can't afford a vacation outside the national border coz of this thing called currency conversion....
Comes home almost every night...short flights nver more than 4 landings in one sched.
But like I have said, it would be nice to move on to a better equipment and salary...my kids will eventually grow up and I have to send them to college....not to mention the dream of showing them the world on free travel pass...ok ok...I will wake up now and smell the rotten roses....
But I am sure something will turn up, so for those that have old books on FMS or fancy equipment in the aircraft thay don't need anymore pls send them my way...
BTW, the apt for 2200SIN$ per mo is a 3 bedroom / 2 bath apt with a full kitchen. Master bedroom is 4X4m and the 2 smaller room is 3X3. Living and Dining is in one open space (not sure on size) but must be round 4X8m..kitchen and laundy room is separated...I sound like a realtor..
Ironic, a mate of mine was living there for 3 years he worked there for a flg airline (neighbouring country) as line engineer (got paid sin$6000/ mo and they pay for the apt and schooling for up to 2 kids)
