hoooo so scared [shrugged pff]

...and this is the type of crew that Cathay relies on....Frightening! I wonder what level of education they have, probably high school.

Cpt. Underpants has been providing useful, respectful content to this board for years. Airgent, you are no gent. You come off as a disrespectful brat.

I was hired as a DESO in 2008. I ended up in a pool, and was finally offered a class in 2010 under the new terms. The recruiter who called and explained the new offer sounded embarrassed.

But you know better, don't you?

Oh, and I passed on the offer.

@jriv. I'm not disputing your statement, it's just that respect will get respect back. A senior guy should know better how to respond, gotta lose the attitude. Foul language is unwarranted and I'd use it on someone who's careless to use it on me first.

Airgent,

I hate to tell you this but I'll try in the most diplomatic way I can.....You, are at the bottom of the aviation food chain and if you expect to be respected by guys who've been flying aircraft since before you were probably born, you are in for a rude awakening.

Respect in this industry, has to be earnt by those who are starting out. You can increase your chances of being respected quicker, by listening to guys like Undie and having the maturity to realise that they have been around avaition and CX long enough to know, that guys accepting the I-Cadet deal, are being taken advantage of by CX. They're being brutally honest in the vain hope you might actually realise that if you believe CX, you may very well, be up the proverbial creek, financially.

Don't behave like a spoilt gen Y brat.

Oh, and just so you know, there are CX STC's that will end up doing your checks, that have posted in this thread. The very guys that your job will depend on. You might want to stop insulting people......just sayin'.

Airkid.... You're right in some ways. This is the standard of applicant CX seek:
because experience, credentials let alone 1 single hour of flight training is not needed. What you endorse, support and subscribe to by hoping to join CX under such circumstances speaks volumes of your own standards, not those of others.

If it weren't for those turning down the offer (i.e. those with thousands of hours of experience as Capt and FO in GA, regional, international ops in piston, turbine and jet aircraft) then you and cohorts would be chasing something else fast and easy without the need for credentials or experience. And, if you do have such experience, then more the shame you. In fact it took this iCadetship for so many of these "passionate" wannabe aviators to even try to be a pilot. Such "passion" didn't exist before the standards for applicants was so low.

People in the know tell you and others the truths. But you deem all that experience and knowledge as below your own naive, selfish and ignorant wants.

If selected you're not the best of the best but the cheapest option. Nothing more, nothing less.

@Dan Buster....I know you're trying to pick on me but I will be wiser to ignore your comments. Have a fantastic CX day!

@Kenny. You know what's so funny about online discussion? many people assume many things. Just because I ask for advice doesn't require me to lower my standards, or let someone out there treat me in a disrespectful way. We probably come from different background, but as you said respect is earned. That's fair however respect comes both ways, it's not a one way street. Another thing is, how do you know if I'm a cadet, how do you know that I have zero time in aviation? think about it for a second, I may have way more time on the yoke then you do. You don't know that! I don't and won't reveal my aviation background in here (maybe not quite yet), I'm here because I'm looking at the prospects of probably joining CX but I'm not sure, so I come here to you guys see if you could help. What good is there if those who volunteer to provide answers act themselves like kids? just saying...Regardless, there are good people in here willing to provide info in a polite way, I appreciate that. I understand no one is required to answer any question in here but should anyone volunteer please do it in a professional way after all most of you are pilots and expected to act as professionals. Isn't it what seniors strive to be like? like role models?
Thanks for your "diplomacy" but you've got to look at things outside the box sometimes not just in your own perspective. Good day!

@ChinaBeached....I always considered CX as a high class world airline but if CX is only looking for such applicants (no disrespect to anyone), it may not be for me. It tells a lot about the workplace in general.

Here is a question for you? Why is CX looking for SO? is it a requirement from the HK civil authority or just another way to slowly weed out pilots on scale A and B? I mean hire cheap labor to replace those who are there already?

Airgent,

Not that I think that you are going to get this in any way shape or form but I’ll humour you, for now….

Why have I and many others made various assumptions about you and your situation? Simple really; you accept that respect is earned but then state that it’s a two way street. Actually, in a company like CX, it’s not. If you join as an I-Cadet, you and only you will have everything to prove. You will be judged from day one on your attitude, how you interact with your peers and those senior to you, what you say and how you say it. Given that you don’t realize that, it shows that either there’s a lack of maturity or a lack of experience within aviation.

CX is not a “touchy-feely” airline, they’re not going to hold your hand and give you a kleenex, when you have a bad day and screw up in the sim or on the line. They will expect you to do your job to their standards and nothing less. Why? Because that’s the way they’ve been doing it for the last 60 odd years and it’s worked for them. The culture at CX and pretty much all the other “Colonial” airlines is probably the main thing most pilots from the US, struggle with at first.

Continuing on with why I made the assumptions I have; you ask how I can be sure you don’t have more experience or flight time than I do? Well, if you have 13 years as a commercial pilot, 9000 hours and 2000 in the left seat of a jet, then I guess you do but the only question I have is….why the hell would you be looking at the CX I-Cadet program? Given that I don’t think anyone in my position would consider the current entry options to CX, that would leave 2 main options; Either you’re an RJ/TP FO or you’re probably at Riddle. And that, God help us, would explain everything!

I’ll tell you what I find amusing about online discussions….That younger posters, who don’t know about a time when Facebook, Twitter or even the internet existed, can’t seem to resist the urge or temptation to put everything on the internet for the whole world to see. It’s not that difficult to work out who you are if you ever make it to an interview, especially if you’ve told the very people that might interview you, that they’re a moron. I’m not kidding, by the way. Also, you do understand that the CX recruitment team look at these pages? What do you think they’d make of your posts?

You’re right though, there is a wealth of information here from guys who know CX inside out but there are those who seem to be unable to accept being told the truth and act like petulant little children, when told something that doesn’t agree with what they conned themselves into thinking, just to justify accepting such poor terms and conditions.

I’ll leave you with this…Dan B wasn’t attacking you and CB hit the nail squarely on the head. You are not the best of the best but very much the cheapest option. Why would anyone want to join a company that so cynically values them so poorly?

@Kenny...allow me to say that you may be confusing professional respect and internet etiquette, the two don't mingle. You have your opinion on this, I respect it and I have mine. Like I said before, I will treat you the same way you treat me.Of course I know in the airline industry, there is a chain of command, the Capt get the utmost respect, usually "unchallenged" except in rare situations.
Furthermore, CX in the past, was accepting applications for both FO and SO, so I applied for FO position but was offered interview for SO position recently. Don't just assume I wanna be a SO or I'm a RJ FO/ Riddle or Gen Y, so much for profiling. I want you not to err (on the wrong side of this) based on your online experience, once in a while you come across someone different. You can believe whatever you'd like, I know what I am.
See if I was that stupid, as you're insinuating, I could have just taken the deal right away but I'm looking for info to make a sound decision; this is what brought me here to begin with but I started regretting my decision to seek info on this forum due to certain people's attitudes. 'Tell you what, even if CX offered A Scale to new hires, I'd think twice before joining if that's the type of people I'd work with. I have experience to know there are better companies out there!

I cannot understand why some people are so keen to go and work for a company that has so much ill feeling and negativity surrounding it.

Having been through the selection process I can tell you that a more oppresive and intimidating company I could not wish to work for.

Regards,

VFE.

@VFE. That's the feeling I'm getting. Good to know I'm not alone :)

Gotta love Gen Y
 

I really feel for CX Capts/FO's if this is the mental maturity of the SO's/iCadets you'll be flying with.

Cpt. Underpants wrote but then went on to answer the question.

airgent who later carries on about immediately replies with .

And then wonders why several posters are giving him attitude.

.

Mate, most people (on Prune and face-to-face) are mirrors. Maybe people on this forum are giving you 'attitude' because they're reflecting yours back onto yourself.

DIVOSH!

If you guys can't hack it then don't come..

simple

@Di_Vosh. Get a life please, you're wasting too much time online trying to be the internet counselor. VFE nailed it.

LOL!
 

airgent

You crack me up mate! :}

Five minute reply last time and around three minutes for this one. In between posts, I've walked both my dogs and enjoyed the very narrow window of good weather here in Melbourne today! :ok: I've got plenty of time for Prune ;)

But I'm not the one asking for information about CX and then abusing people who reply.

Ask yourself this: After your display on this thread, why would anyone bother trying to help you?

@Di_Vosh...Haven't you realized it yet that I don't care if you try to persuade me of your good will to provide advice? Low IQ perhaps? 'Thought CX has methods in place to weed out such people hummm. Your time is up already, who's next?

ROFLMAO!
 

G'day again airgent

It was pretty obvious that you didn't care for my advice. However, my last post wasn't for your benefit. ;)

Way off the mark there, sunshine! I've never applied to CX and never will. The reasons for that should be obvious. Pity you can't take your own advice about assuming things about other people.

Keep it coming. :ok:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, PLEASE LET THIS BE A WINDUP:mad::mad::mad:

j3

@InTheWeeds
I hope you're not a pilot otherwise God bless your PAX. You know I was referring to "respect" in the context of professional respect right? What's that has to do with CRM? Do you even know what's CRM is? You think CRM means no respect for the Capt? ha! this is really interesting, please tell me you don't work for CX, it starts to scare me the things I hear from those supposedly pro pilots...hum!
or maybe you had too much "weeds" this morning? [that would explain it]:)

@Paultheparaglider
FYI, I took notice but didn't appreciate the attitude, that's it.

paultheparaglider

out of 14 pollution stations in hk today 28/5 Tung Chung today was 25API on the index, the second lowest in hk..

The annual amount of pollution in tung Chung is in the lowest 25% of anywhere in HK...

Yes there are days about 10 a year when its really bad there,however if you check your daily readings,and annual totals its always well below most other Hk towns..

Just keeping the facts straight.

Moreover its ozone pollutant in general and not Nitrogen Dioxide from vehicles and industry as in most other HK locations

Blade's response is just the proof you need. Everyday at work will be like doing ten rounds in the ring with Tyson. Not a bad thing if you like that kind of atmosphere at work but in commercial aviation it's widely accepted as being a hopelessly outdated attitude and not very CRM to say the least.

VFE.

VFE

you are right ,its much better to come then whinge about your conditions...

how about if you don't like the conditions don't come...

seems simple

Yeah Paul thats spot on,on a yearly basis low in general with very high occasional spikes...

on the plus side I hear lots of expat cabin crew are in TC!!

I think the HKG government site is misleading though, the levels in the report are arbitrary numbers picked from no guidelines as to what is and what is not healthy. If you look at this site it compares the pollution to the world health organization levels and shows a very different story as to what is low medium and high. Funny how HKG decided to make up their own levels and ignore a worldwide standard.

Hedley Environmental Index

Interesting how a thread develops. Its a forum topic to help Cathay applicants, sarted by someone who was successful at the process who gave a well reasoned explanation of why he turned it down, then supporting comments by serving Cathay pilots. Any thanks from a cathay wannabe? Nope...attack :) I would have loved to been a fly on the wall at that interview with airgent if it happened. So a belated thanks to all that took the time to give constructive advice.

@Kenny
 

Hey Kenny,

I'm looking at joining CX and reading these posts as well as talking to a Captain at CX has really opened my eyes to what its going to be like working there. I wanted to know how you, the rest of you PPRuNers and the aviation industry as a whole, view pilots who graduate from Embry-Riddle. Most of you have oodles more yoke time than I do, so your input would be great. I recently graduated from there and like to know what kind of reception I'm walking into, be it negative (as I kind of expect) or positive.

Cheers,

KO

Embry-Riddle
 

K.O.

Unfortunately, Embry-Riddle graduates generally do not have a good rep amongst professional pilots and most ER grads end up flying for regionals where it becomes their career. ER's Aeronautical Science degree is nothing but a very expensive degree (up to $200K or more with flight) that gives you a pathway to a poor quality of life since you make pittance while flight instructing and as FO at the regionals. ER grads are also known to be rather arrogant as they have the mentality they graduated from 'Harvard of th skies" , in reality, there are some much better flight schools like Purdue etc. The ER grads I know, generally fly for a couple of years, can't get anywhere and change jobs to do something that usually is not aviation related. It is unfortunate when you look at ER's sales brochures, they always talk about how there is a "looming" pilot shortage, not really telling the truth about how difficult the job market could be.

Good luck to you.

Hey TruthSeeker6,

I'm sorry to hear that. I can confirm your statement about grads going to regionals, however, I'm unsure of how many many still have those jobs, have moved up in the world or just flat out quit. I've always (and understandably so) thought of my degree to be the crowbar that will separate me from my competition, and I hope I'm not being cocky by saying so, but hope its a fact.

Do you think someone else with a degree from Purdue would do better? Or is it just luck that determines what job you'll land? I don't and didn't plan to be a flight instructor after i graduated. What alternative is there to moving from being a CFI to the regionals? I doubt I am better off. I'm not sure what your flight background is or if you're currently employed, but I'm more and more inclined to believe that the poor sod working for Express Jet at 22k a year, has a job and flies something bigger than a piston twin.

I agree with the fact that ER grads are known to be arrogant, but that's not all of us, its a stereotype. Purdue and UND are good schools too. I wonder if there's a way to let the aviation world that we're not all stuck up and make sure that ER grads are a bit more humble about their degrees/training. I won't really know how good of a pilot I am, or how good my training is until i throw myself into the real world and go head to head with hundreds of other pilots in trying to secure a job.

The looming pilot shortage needs to stop looming and start striding towards us, wha'dya say? ER makes dreamers out of us, but I think its good in a way. We graduate being fairly positive, ready to get out there, get a good job and make the most of our training. Thats not how i felt when i graduated, perhaps i know more. I digress. Thank you for your input. Anyone else have a similar or contradictory viewpoint than TruthSeeker6? Let me know.

Thanks,

Happy Landings,

KO

K.O.
The problem with pilots progressing to the major airlines is there are so many regional pilots out there that are qualified to move up and going to the majors is a very competitive process since you will be vying against them for the jobs. It seems that the ones more successful in getting into legacy carriers are the military pilot. Since your only 24, have you thought about going through one of the branches (Air Force preferably since you will likely fly a large transport jet there). In the good ole days, working at the legacy carriers means you had a set life, now it’s totally unpredictable due to rising costs, poor revenue, intense competition from low cost carriers hence why many airlines go into bankruptcy like American is going through right now. Keep in mind, American was once a very strong carrier even post 9-11, now that name may never exist since US Air may take them over. Look at Pam Am, Eastern etc.

I really don’t think person that went to Purdue or UND etc would be better off. I think someone who went to UND and Purdue probably had a more normal college life than ER (UND maybe less debt). It seems the biggest complaint about ER is that it is so aviation oriented, it didn’t seem like a normal university (just look at the male-female ratio). I think the problem with wanting to be a pilot is that it is hard to start off no matter if you went to ER, UND, went to Flight Safety etc, everyone doing this themselves have to somehow build hours to move up. You can graduate with an engineering degree from Harvard but not get hire at the regional if you don’t have the hours (where it helps is when HR has to decide if they choose you or the other candidates applying for the job). Once you get the hours, you still are not set as there are always furloughs, bankruptcies and intense competition finding pilot jobs (just try to find some 737 jobs right now in the US and you can see how few position there are at any given moment).

You are right, not everyone at ER is arrogant, you don’t seem so from your postings. One thing about ER is you definitely got a better flight training that your peers who went to other flight schools especially in that area. So keep positive.

K.O.

CX is presently transitioning from a career to a training airline, a stepping stone in an airline pilots career. However, it is for sure a better choice then working for an US regional airline. As a recent aviation college grad your demopraphics are in demand for the advanced entry cadet course. If you are young and prepared to spend 6-7 years in Hong Kong you will have over a 1000 hours right seat wide body jet time which will open the doors to find employment at home or with some better airline choices.
The question you have to ask yourself is - can you adjust to the lifestyle in Hong Kong? The cadet package doesn't provide housing benefits so you are initially getting HKD 10000 a month as an extra allowance. Housing is getting more expensive and Tung Chung for example is estimated to grow to a population of 290000 due to the bridge construction which will make this previously reasonable priced housing area unaffordable to you. But if you are willing to share accommodation with room mates or commute to a more affordable country like Thailand you can live for sure a better life style than with an US regional. Also, don't count on ever getting a base, as the new Hong Kong package eliminates any base cost savings. In summery, if you are looking for your first airline job and you are willing to give up life style and leaving your home country, CX is a good choice in my opinion. However CX is not the career airline anymore for all the new hires and accumulating a comfortable retirement package and retirement home in your home country is only possible with significant lifestyle sacrifices in Hong Kong under the new package.

Pilot from Pakistan
 

Is there any issue if Pilots from pakistan or any other mulsim country is praying facing towards Mecca? Has this been an issue for the Business or First Class pax travelling in Emirates or Etihad airlines?? Did they start sh*ting in their seats when they saw a pilot is praying??? Why this has to come as a surprise if they are coming to Paklistan to recruit pilots?

It might come as a surprise that there are many pilot in CX or SG who are from Pakistan, and so far no Business class Pax has done sh*t*ing in his pants.

I wonder why people have to tell all of the world that they are so ignorent of the facts and so narrow minded?

Salah And Muslim Pilots/passengers — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

check this out, it may help. It will obviously depend on the airline. Dan Buster is right...you may want to think twice about praying while on the flight deck with two expat pilots at the controls of a CX 744. In India and in most of the middle east you wouldn't have a problem.

@TruthSeeker6,

I’m afraid I dislike anything to do with the military. I was on the road to being a fighter pilot for the Indian Airforce flying Su32’s etc, but I decided to go a different path.

I totally feel you on the whole “normal college experience”. Yes I am VERY aware of the male:female ratio at ER. I suffered that for 6 years. Lol. I must admit I recently got over my riddle vision. Haha. ER is aviation 24x7. You hear it in the hallways, in dorm, during conversations at lunch…its everywhere all the time.

I guess the real telling will be when the HR guys and gals read my resume. It seems like its in their hands entirely. I DO think I got excellent flight training, however, I’m yet again unsure of how I could compare to you during a one-on-one fly-off.

Do you know what an iCadet is? I am unfamiliar with some of the acronyms and jargon used here.

Cheers


@GTC58

I’m rather confused about my future. I feel like im on a game show where once I open Door Number X, I’ll be stuck with what I get. Seems like a big gamble. The question I ask myself is, will I miss out on something much much better during those 6-7 years here in India? Will I be able to make Capt on a 777 here within that time frame rather than making 1000 SIC on a widebody flying for CX? Will I SAVE more living and working in India or HK? These are questions I cannot answer now; there are to many unknown unknowns. I’m sure I can adjust to pretty much any life style haha. I’m just trying not to set myself up for another 6 years of cup noodles and counting pennies to buy milk. Had enough of that in the States. I was seriously considering living in a fairly cheap one-person sailboat at the harbor. No real rent to pay, and if I have to pay at the docks I could just sail to a cheaper one. Food is cheap and so is transport. I would be ok about leaving my home country to live and work somewhere else, however, with the current state of the pilot package I don’t think I’ll have housing security for too long. I don’t want to have to AFFORD the pilot package im given.

Cheers

Surely a wind-up.

No wind up, imho. This is what Cathay are trolling for. Pun intended.

A one person sailboat in the harbor? Don't think you have really thought this through or looked into it at all.

All moorings are full. 3+ year wait to get a government one but can't go on the waiting list till you have a boat. Some moorings left in Aberdeen but they are HK$6000 a month plus laying your own power and water.

Or did you mean just floating around in HKG harbour. If you did I am surprised you got into any sort of university, even one like ER where if you have the cash your in.

A potential airline pilot planning to live in a one-person sailboat in Hong Kong harbour??

In the immortal and oft repeated words of Sergeant Wilson to Captain Mainwaring...

'Do you think that's wise, Sir?'