Dragonair DEFO
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Between Nippi and Pasro
Age: 46
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're right, HKG is expensive(especially the rentals). Anyway you should think that people is different, coming from different places and most probably from a worse contract and worse living conditions, that's why people try with KA!
Maybe survive in HKG is better than somewhere else...
Maybe survive in HKG is better than somewhere else...
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the history of aviation, it is virtually unheard of for a company to retract lesser conditions, so DO NOT go to KA on the premis they will get desperate and increase your T and Cs, they won't.
As has been done to death, 20k will get you a shoebox in an average area, in a hi rise.
If you are young, single and eat/drink like a local you may actually leave ( when you get sick of the place ) with some modest savings, if you are married with kids you will find it hard to survive at an acceptable level on that c scale, remembering that where you come from is probably not one of the most polluted and crowded cities in the world.
Command ? You will have around 2-250 F/Os ahead of you, and expansion has been close to nothing for 5 years, do the math.
There are plenty of good people in KA and the standards are not really an issue if you put some modicum of effort in.
For 2nd interview learn all the obscure symbols etc on Jepps, and know all the crap about aerodynamics that means little to everyday ops, and of course know your own aircraft intimately and don't be fooled into thinking they won't know anything about it, they just might.
Enjoy
As has been done to death, 20k will get you a shoebox in an average area, in a hi rise.
If you are young, single and eat/drink like a local you may actually leave ( when you get sick of the place ) with some modest savings, if you are married with kids you will find it hard to survive at an acceptable level on that c scale, remembering that where you come from is probably not one of the most polluted and crowded cities in the world.
Command ? You will have around 2-250 F/Os ahead of you, and expansion has been close to nothing for 5 years, do the math.
There are plenty of good people in KA and the standards are not really an issue if you put some modicum of effort in.
For 2nd interview learn all the obscure symbols etc on Jepps, and know all the crap about aerodynamics that means little to everyday ops, and of course know your own aircraft intimately and don't be fooled into thinking they won't know anything about it, they just might.
Enjoy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Between Nippi and Pasro
Age: 46
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope you're joking when you say DO NOT accept the job and waiting for the company, if they are unable to find drivers, to increases the contract back to B scale or A scale. If now we have a C scale is not fault of the a new joiners...
You CANNOT fight for your contract just asking people to stay away from the job!
You CANNOT fight for your contract just asking people to stay away from the job!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice mis-quoting, thanks.
I said do not accept the job on the " premis " the conditions will improve, in other words, do not accept the C scale conditions and " hope " they will improve, they won't.
I said do not accept the job on the " premis " the conditions will improve, in other words, do not accept the C scale conditions and " hope " they will improve, they won't.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Between Nippi and Pasro
Age: 46
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because someone else says: "So if you hang on to your application for a little longer - then chances are good that they will be forced to pay market price again = B-scale"...completly wrong according to me, they will always find some pilots ready to accept these conditions.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up High
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure where 747ANC is getting his numbers from regarding nine years to command. Similarly, I'm not sure about the statement that there is no expansion. Currently, there are a minimum of 2 new command slots per month for at least the next 6 months and there have already been a number of upgrades this year.
The latest DEFO to be upgraded took 7 years to get that command and that is going to be about the time served for the next year or so.
If joining as a cadet, yes, it will take a lot longer as it should. The latest cadet to be promoted has been in KA 8 1/2 years - pretty quick from nothing to command.
There are many doom sayers here, but as usual, you can take their views as gospel or you can try and see there may be other sides to the story - there usually are.
Whoosh
The latest DEFO to be upgraded took 7 years to get that command and that is going to be about the time served for the next year or so.
If joining as a cadet, yes, it will take a lot longer as it should. The latest cadet to be promoted has been in KA 8 1/2 years - pretty quick from nothing to command.
There are many doom sayers here, but as usual, you can take their views as gospel or you can try and see there may be other sides to the story - there usually are.
Whoosh
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up High
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kathey,
Interesting numbers. Not sure where you got the 280 FOs number from when we only have a total of 400 pilots period, including management pilots, and pilot number 240 has just been upgraded. I grant that not all those above him are captains, but there are not 120 FOs above him on the seniority list.
I presume you have worked in the Middle East? If not, then you might find it is not a panacea. Having spent some time there it is not a place I would hurry back to.
I do agree with you that C-scale is not a good contract.
Whoosh
Interesting numbers. Not sure where you got the 280 FOs number from when we only have a total of 400 pilots period, including management pilots, and pilot number 240 has just been upgraded. I grant that not all those above him are captains, but there are not 120 FOs above him on the seniority list.
I presume you have worked in the Middle East? If not, then you might find it is not a panacea. Having spent some time there it is not a place I would hurry back to.
I do agree with you that C-scale is not a good contract.
Whoosh
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sunny Europe
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can confirm the 10 years to command, since it was told to me at the interview ("8 to 12 years"), followed by the typical "you cannot predict aviation business".
I withdraw from KA recruitment, since the contract doesn't assure anything to me, and I have no intention on being stuck (career wise) for a decade.
The truth is, on the interview, they sold the contract as it was on the "contract summary" or what ever it is called. I basically had to fish the problems and concerns out. For me, it says a lot about a future employer.
New guys, or guys wanting a TR on the Bus, go ahead.
See you there anyway
I withdraw from KA recruitment, since the contract doesn't assure anything to me, and I have no intention on being stuck (career wise) for a decade.
The truth is, on the interview, they sold the contract as it was on the "contract summary" or what ever it is called. I basically had to fish the problems and concerns out. For me, it says a lot about a future employer.
New guys, or guys wanting a TR on the Bus, go ahead.
See you there anyway
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would you say that Hong Kong Airlines is a better option in terms of future? Don't know much about their conditions, but it seems the have an agressive expansion plan.
On the other hand, Dragonair is more stable, isn't it?
On the other hand, Dragonair is more stable, isn't it?
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Between Nippi and Pasro
Age: 46
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blanik84,
HKA conditions do not seem so much better than KA, indeed are a bit worse. True, the company is growing fast while the expansion in KA is made up by only few aircraft. HKA is a relatively young company, officially joined the IATA in 2010 and owned by Hainan airlines. KA is a stable one, owned by Cathay Pacific.
Unfortunately we are not able to predict the future business of both companies, but if you're looking for a fast upgrade HKA seems the right place.
Safe flights
HKA conditions do not seem so much better than KA, indeed are a bit worse. True, the company is growing fast while the expansion in KA is made up by only few aircraft. HKA is a relatively young company, officially joined the IATA in 2010 and owned by Hainan airlines. KA is a stable one, owned by Cathay Pacific.
Unfortunately we are not able to predict the future business of both companies, but if you're looking for a fast upgrade HKA seems the right place.
Safe flights
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys,
Honestly, there are so many people on this thread that sound like they've got beef or have been hard done by the company. Do the research yourself, weigh out the pros and cons (for yourself) and then decide. Everyone has different reasons for changing companies. If you want to live a stable lifestyle, the salary KA offers is not bad at all. If you want to make a lot of money, go to China and fly for some of the Shenzen based outfits...because those are the only companies offering "good money" (for the time being). You can keep looking around and you might find better packages, or worse...depending or where you want to be. Hong Kong is expensive, no doubt. You probably won't be saving as much money by moving there. But please do not base your decision on bitter rants by some of the members here. You might be missing out on a good job and experience.
There's my 2 cents worth!
Honestly, there are so many people on this thread that sound like they've got beef or have been hard done by the company. Do the research yourself, weigh out the pros and cons (for yourself) and then decide. Everyone has different reasons for changing companies. If you want to live a stable lifestyle, the salary KA offers is not bad at all. If you want to make a lot of money, go to China and fly for some of the Shenzen based outfits...because those are the only companies offering "good money" (for the time being). You can keep looking around and you might find better packages, or worse...depending or where you want to be. Hong Kong is expensive, no doubt. You probably won't be saving as much money by moving there. But please do not base your decision on bitter rants by some of the members here. You might be missing out on a good job and experience.
There's my 2 cents worth!
Last edited by karam; 16th Jun 2012 at 08:31.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello guys! I am also booked for the initial interview of Dragon Air,i will be in London next week. Anyone knows how long that takes? Do they tell you in a short period after the initial interview if you passed or not?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Global
Age: 52
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A 'western styled lifestyle'. I
wonder what that is anymore. Considering housing in the USA, austerity in Europe, housing prices raising exponentially in mining areas in Australia... The days of sprawling land ownership in choice locations have slowly and surely been eroded with ever increasing interest rates and poor aviation job opportunities.
Asia in a nutshell has opportunities but with it comes cost of living and 'pigeon holed living. Pollution like any other industrialized area, corruption and less than ideal safety standards in certain countries. Those who were fortunate to be accorded the 'B' scales of yesteryears are slowly and surely becoming like the almost extinct 'A' scales much like the blue bloods from early ages.
No point fighting the inevitable wave of 'bean counting' economics when it's not the highest standards that prevails but employing the numbers that make the 'minimum requirements' suitable for training over a longer period.
The 250Hr fATPL and future MPL holders are and will be the 'apprentices' in the industry and it's either it's taken in stride to help nurture and develop these individuals to become a valued member of the team instilling the right company values or treated with disdain and chastised for accepting lower than 'standards' packages that no longer exists. To the senior guys...you can choose which mentor you want to be cos these same young 'apprentices' will inevitably be flying you and your families around after you retire on your staff benefits. In your airline or any airline.
wonder what that is anymore. Considering housing in the USA, austerity in Europe, housing prices raising exponentially in mining areas in Australia... The days of sprawling land ownership in choice locations have slowly and surely been eroded with ever increasing interest rates and poor aviation job opportunities.
Asia in a nutshell has opportunities but with it comes cost of living and 'pigeon holed living. Pollution like any other industrialized area, corruption and less than ideal safety standards in certain countries. Those who were fortunate to be accorded the 'B' scales of yesteryears are slowly and surely becoming like the almost extinct 'A' scales much like the blue bloods from early ages.
No point fighting the inevitable wave of 'bean counting' economics when it's not the highest standards that prevails but employing the numbers that make the 'minimum requirements' suitable for training over a longer period.
The 250Hr fATPL and future MPL holders are and will be the 'apprentices' in the industry and it's either it's taken in stride to help nurture and develop these individuals to become a valued member of the team instilling the right company values or treated with disdain and chastised for accepting lower than 'standards' packages that no longer exists. To the senior guys...you can choose which mentor you want to be cos these same young 'apprentices' will inevitably be flying you and your families around after you retire on your staff benefits. In your airline or any airline.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm through to the final interview and sim check for DEFO position and will be going out to Hong Kong some time in September. If anyone else is going to be there drop me a PM and get in touch.
MM.
MM.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Kathey,
I have a friend who has joined recently and he certainly hasnt been chopped.
From what I have heard its all been very efficient, friendly and well planned, his TR starts later this month.
Are you saying he is next?
On what grounds have you heard these chaps have been failed?
ST123
I have a friend who has joined recently and he certainly hasnt been chopped.
From what I have heard its all been very efficient, friendly and well planned, his TR starts later this month.
Are you saying he is next?
On what grounds have you heard these chaps have been failed?
ST123
Last edited by super ted123; 4th Aug 2012 at 13:55.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully your friend is not the next one.
The company is very tight with this kind of information so I havent really been able to get any info out of the trainers except that they are failing or leaving.
It could possibly be a combined rumor with the guys that has failed the command checks but I am not sure. After all, this is a rumor network....
The company is very tight with this kind of information so I havent really been able to get any info out of the trainers except that they are failing or leaving.
It could possibly be a combined rumor with the guys that has failed the command checks but I am not sure. After all, this is a rumor network....
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
69000HKD good money? 9000$ approx Is there tax on that? how much?
Hello everyone I'm considering doing expat flying in the future. Any Canadians there in HK? One of the big factors in my decision making is Tax $$ 45+% on a good salary here. I see all these jobs that are 200k plus and tax free for captains in China/HK. To me it looks like if you saved a good amount of your money you could retire fairly young compared to Canadian counterparts. I don't really plan on having a family any time soon im sure that helps. Any intellegent thoughts? Is it possible to save some good money?
If i do go i would be planning to make the jump in 5 years. Once i have some good time maybe some SIC on a 737CL or PIC on heavy turboprop. I hear upgrade times can be quick?
Air Canada is looking worse and worse these days 38k to start minus tax
It won't get better either.
Hello everyone I'm considering doing expat flying in the future. Any Canadians there in HK? One of the big factors in my decision making is Tax $$ 45+% on a good salary here. I see all these jobs that are 200k plus and tax free for captains in China/HK. To me it looks like if you saved a good amount of your money you could retire fairly young compared to Canadian counterparts. I don't really plan on having a family any time soon im sure that helps. Any intellegent thoughts? Is it possible to save some good money?
If i do go i would be planning to make the jump in 5 years. Once i have some good time maybe some SIC on a 737CL or PIC on heavy turboprop. I hear upgrade times can be quick?
Air Canada is looking worse and worse these days 38k to start minus tax
It won't get better either.
