So, CX called me for the "fast track"
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At the interview it was 24000 I believe. Plus 33000 salary. The real kicker is no housing until captain which is a huuuge loss in earning potential. Personally I don't need to leave my home country if I want to work for what little would be left over after paying rent in HKG.
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The AOA should address the issue.
After all, do we really want to fly with 0-experienced SO/FO's for the next 20 years?
And we don't want to give Cathay an easy way to get rid of housing for us all.
After all, do we really want to fly with 0-experienced SO/FO's for the next 20 years?
And we don't want to give Cathay an easy way to get rid of housing for us all.
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thats what i recall, 33,000 hkd for salary, and 24,000 hk for allowance. Off the top of my head THIS IS A 40% REDUCTION IN SALARY.
Since its a scientific fact that CX management trolls this forumn, I would like to respectfully ask WTF your thinking?
Since its a scientific fact that CX management trolls this forumn, I would like to respectfully ask WTF your thinking?
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UNBELIEVABLE!!
I applaud those who've had the gumption to turn down the offer. Many others get starry-eyed at the thought of joining and their standards take a backseat. Regardless, a tough pill to swallow after the elation of a "You're in!" call and then waiting 2 or more years. At least you were not brought to HK first and then advised of changes, reminiscent of the first B/Super B scale guys.
I too wonder what happened to the thousands of applicants that they had in hand? Perhaps if most guys turn down their recent offerings the company will be forced to have a rethink.
HK is not the place to be without housing especially when a family is in tow!
Good luck guys,
MACH.88
I applaud those who've had the gumption to turn down the offer. Many others get starry-eyed at the thought of joining and their standards take a backseat. Regardless, a tough pill to swallow after the elation of a "You're in!" call and then waiting 2 or more years. At least you were not brought to HK first and then advised of changes, reminiscent of the first B/Super B scale guys.
I too wonder what happened to the thousands of applicants that they had in hand? Perhaps if most guys turn down their recent offerings the company will be forced to have a rethink.
HK is not the place to be without housing especially when a family is in tow!
Good luck guys,
MACH.88
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Just out of curiousity. Were the HK FO payscales readjusted accordingly to help the loss of housing? It seems like the SO's just got completely chopped. I don't think they'll attract any experienced people to fill the SO gap with a package like that. Even in the ME Cadets and SO's are given housing allowance.
Sad to see that CX is going in the same direction as so many other expat "career airlines"
Sad to see that CX is going in the same direction as so many other expat "career airlines"
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"no housing is the norm"
Stallone,
You stated: "no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that", but this is not correct.
Cathay is trying to paint your picture, but it ONLY applies to new joiners; this is the new "C-Scale", guys, and well done for not signing up to it. You will get nothing until your Command (10 years or so at the very least) and then only HK$24,000 or so.
Housing remains unchanged in Hong Kong for all current crew and without it life in Hong Kong would be unviable; most would leave.
You stated: "no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that", but this is not correct.
Cathay is trying to paint your picture, but it ONLY applies to new joiners; this is the new "C-Scale", guys, and well done for not signing up to it. You will get nothing until your Command (10 years or so at the very least) and then only HK$24,000 or so.
Housing remains unchanged in Hong Kong for all current crew and without it life in Hong Kong would be unviable; most would leave.
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Originally Posted by Adam Goodjob
Stallone,
You stated: "no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that", but this is not correct.
Cathay is trying to paint your picture, but it ONLY applies to new joiners; this is the new "C-Scale", guys, and well done for not signing up to it. You will get nothing until your Command (10 years or so at the very least) and then only HK$24,000 or so.
Housing remains unchanged in Hong Kong for all current crew and without it life in Hong Kong would be unviable; most would leave.
You stated: "no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that", but this is not correct.
Cathay is trying to paint your picture, but it ONLY applies to new joiners; this is the new "C-Scale", guys, and well done for not signing up to it. You will get nothing until your Command (10 years or so at the very least) and then only HK$24,000 or so.
Housing remains unchanged in Hong Kong for all current crew and without it life in Hong Kong would be unviable; most would leave.
n i know w/o the housing allowance can be very tight for a single n almost impossible with a family. i'm living in Singapore, costs of living is very much similar to HK
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This is obviously not going to work, once again short sighted management see it as savings over each pilots career which would be massive. All the guys joining now as cadets have the flying bug, want to be an airline pilot, fly a big jet for one of the major airlines. This soon wears off and it is just a job, still a good and interesting job but nevertheless still a job. Right now most cadets stay once they are FOs and thats because HKG is their home, if you are used to living in a small place, have your family and friends here its not so bad. International Cadets will see it another way, why work here in these conditions when I can go home and work for a descent company and have more spending power or go to the desert and get a house and a tax free salary. This is going to be interesting when it all starts falling apart and it will I have no doubt.
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Hopefully, everyone will have the same sense as the guys posting here, and NOT take the job whilst the terms are so bad. It is absolutely true - as an international cadet with no family base in HKG, you will go bankrupt coming here with no housing. Adam Goodjob - more like 15 years plus to Command, not 10!
Good on you guys for standing up to this shameful behaviour. I hope CX come to their senses soon and you can come to HKG on a decent package again. Good luck!
Good on you guys for standing up to this shameful behaviour. I hope CX come to their senses soon and you can come to HKG on a decent package again. Good luck!
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When people I haven't seen in awhile ask me for an update on the Cathay situation... "Hey, weren't you moving to HK?" or something along those lines, I'm honest and tell them in a very factual and non-emotional way that Cathay is hiring predominately Cadets now.
They ask what a cadet is. I explain that as well.
They ask why would Cathay do that. I explain the difference in T+C between the cheap, inexperienced cadets and the experienced expats and how cadets will save Cathay millions per pilot over a 25year career.
Their response to hearing this is always in the same vein...
"I don't want to fly on Cathay Pacific if that's the kind of pilots they hire."
Because I'm a nice guy, I explain it likely won't be a problem for a number of years as there's still a lot of experienced pilots there and the surge in cadets will take awhile to come up the system. And by that time, the manager who thought up/approved this idea will have collected years of fat bonus for his incredible cost savings. Conveniently, he/she will have left or retired as a hero by the time it does become a problem.
They ask what a cadet is. I explain that as well.
They ask why would Cathay do that. I explain the difference in T+C between the cheap, inexperienced cadets and the experienced expats and how cadets will save Cathay millions per pilot over a 25year career.
Their response to hearing this is always in the same vein...
"I don't want to fly on Cathay Pacific if that's the kind of pilots they hire."
Because I'm a nice guy, I explain it likely won't be a problem for a number of years as there's still a lot of experienced pilots there and the surge in cadets will take awhile to come up the system. And by that time, the manager who thought up/approved this idea will have collected years of fat bonus for his incredible cost savings. Conveniently, he/she will have left or retired as a hero by the time it does become a problem.
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As a 3rd year SO I can tell you that after the first 2 years, the housing is way more than $24000 per month and actually well exceeds my 'salary'.
I recently had a pilot friend from my home country visit us and he was impressed by our lifestyle here. We rent a nice big place with plenty of space for the kids.
I tried to explain that recruitment of the future would not include housing and it sunk in to him that my 'lifestyle' would be non existent in HK without it.
"It would be damn hard" was his comment.
Damn right.
I can only urge you potential CXers to realise that the housing makes HK do-able. We may only be renting right now, but when the next property bubble bursts we will then buy our first place and have CX pay our mortgage for the next 25 years.
I recently had a pilot friend from my home country visit us and he was impressed by our lifestyle here. We rent a nice big place with plenty of space for the kids.
I tried to explain that recruitment of the future would not include housing and it sunk in to him that my 'lifestyle' would be non existent in HK without it.
"It would be damn hard" was his comment.
Damn right.
I can only urge you potential CXers to realise that the housing makes HK do-able. We may only be renting right now, but when the next property bubble bursts we will then buy our first place and have CX pay our mortgage for the next 25 years.
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just a reality check for those who are still thinking about it
do a bit of homework ...
1. think about how many square metres/ square feet of living space you require.
I'd say minimum 50sqm / 550 sqft for a single guy and 100sqm / 1100sqft for a couple with 1 child.
2. get to grips with hong kong property market phraseology
ever heard of the word "floor area efficiency" ?
a flat will be offered for rent or sale as "gross sq/ft"
as the property developers are allowed to include your flat's "share" of the common areas, lift lobbys, in-house pool or gym and the wall thickness (yes!) as well as any balcony, aircondition unit utility area and a lot of other things in the saleable/rentable floor area.
The average "efficiency" of HK flats is around 80%
So the effect of this is: a flat that is offered as 1000sqft has actually only 800 sqft that you can use, which means you'll need a 62.5sqm/690 sqft flat for a single and 125sqm/1375sqft for a young family.
with me so far?
3. and now surf to
Hong Kong Property and Apartment, for Rent and for Sale or
Hong Kong Rental Apartments | Villas | Village Houses | Property Lease or
Savills Hong Kong Residential Property Search Website
and look what a 1375 sqft apartment will cost per month in rental ...
4. think again .....
1. think about how many square metres/ square feet of living space you require.
I'd say minimum 50sqm / 550 sqft for a single guy and 100sqm / 1100sqft for a couple with 1 child.
2. get to grips with hong kong property market phraseology
ever heard of the word "floor area efficiency" ?
a flat will be offered for rent or sale as "gross sq/ft"
as the property developers are allowed to include your flat's "share" of the common areas, lift lobbys, in-house pool or gym and the wall thickness (yes!) as well as any balcony, aircondition unit utility area and a lot of other things in the saleable/rentable floor area.
The average "efficiency" of HK flats is around 80%
So the effect of this is: a flat that is offered as 1000sqft has actually only 800 sqft that you can use, which means you'll need a 62.5sqm/690 sqft flat for a single and 125sqm/1375sqft for a young family.
with me so far?
3. and now surf to
Hong Kong Property and Apartment, for Rent and for Sale or
Hong Kong Rental Apartments | Villas | Village Houses | Property Lease or
Savills Hong Kong Residential Property Search Website
and look what a 1375 sqft apartment will cost per month in rental ...
4. think again .....
Last edited by freightdog188; 9th Nov 2010 at 05:30. Reason: links
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Huh. Not sure whether I should feel insulted or not as I haven't been called.
I think I've been swimming the longest in the pool. So long in fact they have probably just assumed that I have drowned....
I think I've been swimming the longest in the pool. So long in fact they have probably just assumed that I have drowned....