Cadet Pilot Ts & Cs
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Larger houses in Hong Kong increase exponentially for cost/sqm....
And I've actually been looking at housing in Melbourne, so many nice one floor 2 bedroom villas for $1500 a month... not to mention, if he's renting, and doesn't have a family yet, a lot of these costs are completely irrelevant... you're scaring him
By no means would I ever recommend Hong Kong though I have heard of Melbourne having high living expenses, almost, ALMOST, comparable to Vancouver
And I've actually been looking at housing in Melbourne, so many nice one floor 2 bedroom villas for $1500 a month... not to mention, if he's renting, and doesn't have a family yet, a lot of these costs are completely irrelevant... you're scaring him
By no means would I ever recommend Hong Kong though I have heard of Melbourne having high living expenses, almost, ALMOST, comparable to Vancouver
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Midgetboy,
Firstly, having spent quite a bit of time in YVR, SYD and MEL, I can tell you SYD and MEL are more expensive for overall cost of living...unfortunately.
I don't know what area of MEL you are looking at where you can get a 2 bedroom villa for $375/week ($1500/month), but I don't think I would want to live there...
Secondly,
404 is not trying to scare anyone, he is trying to educate you on the reality of the cost of living in HKG.
Even a studio/smaller 1 bedder in somewhere like Discovery Bay will cost between $8500 and 12000/month. If you have been looking at sizes, HKG property is a strange beast, as a rule of thumb, multiply whatever is advertised by about 0.8 and it will give you roughly the actual size. So your 500sq ft studio will turn into 400sqft, which is pretty damn small, about the size of an average hotel room.
so, say (10K/month) 120,000 p.a. /400sqft = $300sqft pa. So it doesn't have to be huge, and DB is not expensive as far as HK goes. You also probably don't want to be living in a local fishing village
Also bear in mind that you guys will probably be S/Os for 4-5 years at the current trends. I can't live in a hotel room for much more than a couple of weeks, let alone 4-5 years.
Firstly, having spent quite a bit of time in YVR, SYD and MEL, I can tell you SYD and MEL are more expensive for overall cost of living...unfortunately.
I don't know what area of MEL you are looking at where you can get a 2 bedroom villa for $375/week ($1500/month), but I don't think I would want to live there...
Secondly,
404 is not trying to scare anyone, he is trying to educate you on the reality of the cost of living in HKG.
Even a studio/smaller 1 bedder in somewhere like Discovery Bay will cost between $8500 and 12000/month. If you have been looking at sizes, HKG property is a strange beast, as a rule of thumb, multiply whatever is advertised by about 0.8 and it will give you roughly the actual size. So your 500sq ft studio will turn into 400sqft, which is pretty damn small, about the size of an average hotel room.
so, say (10K/month) 120,000 p.a. /400sqft = $300sqft pa. So it doesn't have to be huge, and DB is not expensive as far as HK goes. You also probably don't want to be living in a local fishing village
Also bear in mind that you guys will probably be S/Os for 4-5 years at the current trends. I can't live in a hotel room for much more than a couple of weeks, let alone 4-5 years.
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Sadly, all the advice and information is falling on deaf ears, or, the potential candidates simply find a way to justify it.
404Titan and others have given you all plenty of accurate info on the cost of living here, ignore it at your peril....and know this....a little gem that will affect a few of you...the company will fire you if you become bankrupt.
Bury your heads in the sand, make excuses, try and justify it somehow, but at the end of the day, your deluding yourselves if you think you can manage here without housing on the SO salary.
If it was only for 2 years, I'd be positive and say maybe, but 4-5 years?
Nosey
404Titan and others have given you all plenty of accurate info on the cost of living here, ignore it at your peril....and know this....a little gem that will affect a few of you...the company will fire you if you become bankrupt.Bury your heads in the sand, make excuses, try and justify it somehow, but at the end of the day, your deluding yourselves if you think you can manage here without housing on the SO salary.
If it was only for 2 years, I'd be positive and say maybe, but 4-5 years?Nosey
MidgetBoy
Please don’t confuse the cost of large apartments on Hong Kong Island to large apartments in the New Territories. Apartments on Hong Kong Island are easily double the cost of apartments per ft² than the New Territories.
So lets look at this two bedroom apartment in Melbourne that goes for AUD$1500.00 per month. Since I don’t know the property your are referring to I found one in a very average area of Melbourne for AUD$370 per week.
Melbourne Rental Property
It has 2 bedroom, one bathroom and one car space. I will give you a guess how big this apartment is. I can tell you it isn’t 500 ft². I rang the agent to find out how big it is and it is just under 100 m² = 1076 ft². So if we extrapolate this out:
Looking at a similar sized apartment in a very average part of Discovery Bay you are paying about HK$20000.00 per month for a 1000 ft². This works out to HK$240.00 per ft² per year.
Please don’t confuse the cost of large apartments on Hong Kong Island to large apartments in the New Territories. Apartments on Hong Kong Island are easily double the cost of apartments per ft² than the New Territories.
So lets look at this two bedroom apartment in Melbourne that goes for AUD$1500.00 per month. Since I don’t know the property your are referring to I found one in a very average area of Melbourne for AUD$370 per week.
Melbourne Rental Property
It has 2 bedroom, one bathroom and one car space. I will give you a guess how big this apartment is. I can tell you it isn’t 500 ft². I rang the agent to find out how big it is and it is just under 100 m² = 1076 ft². So if we extrapolate this out:
370 x 52 = AUD$19240 per year
19240 ÷ 1076 = AUD$17.88 per ft² per year
AUD$17.88 = HK$129.64 per ft² per year
19240 ÷ 1076 = AUD$17.88 per ft² per year
AUD$17.88 = HK$129.64 per ft² per year
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For the potential cadets, please take the advice that these gentlemen are giving you! I am happy to be at CX, but I am on a full expat package. If it was not for the housing assistance in Hong Kong, it would have been nearly impossible to live on SO wages. If you are already experienced, why would you want to leave your home country, come to an airline that is going to give you a p2x rating, log useless time, and live like a pauper? It just doesn't make any sense guys and gals! I know you want to be at CX, I was in the same boat as you, but you are looking at a very difficult road if you choose to go this way.
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Mouwaa, YVR has changed a lot.
In the last 10 years, my house value has increased by 6x.
The areas I've been looking at in Melbourne were places close to the university, I honestly have no clue how the stuff works there, all I read on the realty websites are crap about the bank guaranteeing rent if you can't find renters or 'villas' being really small.....
Also, I had a friend who got in on the cadet program back in 07, he just bought a place in Chung Tung. I'm sure most people don't want to see the building that's raping them every morning, but for $250k US (at the time) it isn't too bad... 700 sq ft isn't huge, but it's manageable...
In the last 10 years, my house value has increased by 6x.
The areas I've been looking at in Melbourne were places close to the university, I honestly have no clue how the stuff works there, all I read on the realty websites are crap about the bank guaranteeing rent if you can't find renters or 'villas' being really small.....
Also, I had a friend who got in on the cadet program back in 07, he just bought a place in Chung Tung. I'm sure most people don't want to see the building that's raping them every morning, but for $250k US (at the time) it isn't too bad... 700 sq ft isn't huge, but it's manageable...
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Roxy, with all the info here, you have to ask?
To enlighten you, housing here is very, very expensive, just go look on the internet or on this thread. There is another thread running that covers in quite a bit of detail the cost of living here. What it boils down to is this: If you have to pay for your own housing out of your salary, you'll have sweet FA left over with to save for your tax, pay your groceries, your utilities, your public transport, club fees, even just to go out for a night on the tiles is $1000HKD. To be blunt, you'll be broke and struggling far far from home.
EVERYTHING costs more here, it seems as though every time I leave the house I'm spending a few hundred here and there, it adds up pretty quick. We are not on here with any hidden agenda, we are here trying to warn you about what you are letting yourself in for. If CX ever got rid of housing, I'd be on the first boat out, shiny jet or not. Don't forget, as an SO, you will have loads of time off, you just won't be able to afford to do anything, or go anywhere....quite frankly it would be depressing.
Clear?
To enlighten you, housing here is very, very expensive, just go look on the internet or on this thread. There is another thread running that covers in quite a bit of detail the cost of living here. What it boils down to is this: If you have to pay for your own housing out of your salary, you'll have sweet FA left over with to save for your tax, pay your groceries, your utilities, your public transport, club fees, even just to go out for a night on the tiles is $1000HKD. To be blunt, you'll be broke and struggling far far from home.EVERYTHING costs more here, it seems as though every time I leave the house I'm spending a few hundred here and there, it adds up pretty quick. We are not on here with any hidden agenda, we are here trying to warn you about what you are letting yourself in for. If CX ever got rid of housing, I'd be on the first boat out, shiny jet or not. Don't forget, as an SO, you will have loads of time off, you just won't be able to afford to do anything, or go anywhere....quite frankly it would be depressing.
Clear?
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Midget boy,
I am quite aware of what current real estate prices are in YVR. They are definitely higher in Sydney than YVR for a reasonable area. Perhaps Melbourne is slightly cheaper, I am not sure, I don't follow current prices there that closely.
I am not sure how old you are but you are looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Is 700sq ft in Tung Chung the gross or net size? That would be manageable for you, and maybe a girlie, but I hope you don't plan on having a kid any time before you would be an FO, because 1) you won't have the room and 2)you won't be able to afford it.
Remember also if you do decide to come here and get jack of your living conditions after 5 years, you will have a P2X type rating that isn't recognised anywhere, and S/O time in your log book that isn't worth the paper it is written on.
I am quite aware of what current real estate prices are in YVR. They are definitely higher in Sydney than YVR for a reasonable area. Perhaps Melbourne is slightly cheaper, I am not sure, I don't follow current prices there that closely.
I am not sure how old you are but you are looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Is 700sq ft in Tung Chung the gross or net size? That would be manageable for you, and maybe a girlie, but I hope you don't plan on having a kid any time before you would be an FO, because 1) you won't have the room and 2)you won't be able to afford it.
Remember also if you do decide to come here and get jack of your living conditions after 5 years, you will have a P2X type rating that isn't recognised anywhere, and S/O time in your log book that isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Roxy_Chick_1989
As I have posted else where the company was asked by the HKAOA, (the union that represents Cathay pilots) at recent negotiations on housing for the T&C’s for the new “International Cadets” as the first of these cadets is due to return to Hong Kong from Adelaide at the end of this year to complete their endorsement training and LFUS. The company so far hasn’t provided these T&C’s but made it very clear that housing will not be paid to any International Cadet or DE pilot as of 2009. They are using the recently legislated Racial Discrimination Ordinance to justify this move. The mere fact that the company wont provide the new T&C’s indicates that the company not only intends not paying a housing allowance, they also intend to reduce the basic pay levels as well, hense the use of the term “C” scale. The last time the company introduced a new pay scale “A” → “B” represented about a 40% reduction in pay scales. If the company does create a “C” scale who knows how much of a reduction the new pay scales will be.
Before anyone says they can’t do this to the cadets that have already started in Adelaide, WRONG. No contract of employment is signed until the candidate successfully finishes their training in Adelaide and starts their training in Hong Kong.
As I have posted else where the company was asked by the HKAOA, (the union that represents Cathay pilots) at recent negotiations on housing for the T&C’s for the new “International Cadets” as the first of these cadets is due to return to Hong Kong from Adelaide at the end of this year to complete their endorsement training and LFUS. The company so far hasn’t provided these T&C’s but made it very clear that housing will not be paid to any International Cadet or DE pilot as of 2009. They are using the recently legislated Racial Discrimination Ordinance to justify this move. The mere fact that the company wont provide the new T&C’s indicates that the company not only intends not paying a housing allowance, they also intend to reduce the basic pay levels as well, hense the use of the term “C” scale. The last time the company introduced a new pay scale “A” → “B” represented about a 40% reduction in pay scales. If the company does create a “C” scale who knows how much of a reduction the new pay scales will be.
Before anyone says they can’t do this to the cadets that have already started in Adelaide, WRONG. No contract of employment is signed until the candidate successfully finishes their training in Adelaide and starts their training in Hong Kong.
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roxy, sent you a PM
for a DESO who has completed 24 months, salary only makes up 40% of the remuneration package, housing makes up around 60%...no that is not a typo.
You will be earning 60% less than your colleagues after 2 years!
for a DESO who has completed 24 months, salary only makes up 40% of the remuneration package, housing makes up around 60%...no that is not a typo.
You will be earning 60% less than your colleagues after 2 years!
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Hi all,
First of all, I just wanna say im not flying any shinny jets or even close to it! I first applied the the CPP back in 2004 or so, didn't get it. So went ahead and spent some money getting my licences and stuff, during then n now, met a few people who madde it into the shinny jet industry and some in CX/KA. As far as I am concerned, the spirit between some pilots are hitting rock bottom due to the reasons few of of you guys stated in this thread.
Now from a company point of view, yes making a profit is important, but if it takes alot out of their employee, then one day it's just gonna back fire on them. Yes, CX had a really good name in the industry and everyone wanted to be part of it, but if these new T's & C's take place....who knows what kind of damages gonna happen in the future??
I hope I am making sense, it's really just my 2cent cos I am not (yet) flying for the shinny industry. Some current CX pilots once told me to look else where if my hours are high enough for industry standard, it's just not worth the 5 years earning P2X where at the end of it, you cant not find jobs elsewhere with those P2X hours anyway, because they worht nothing to others. Please correct me guys, I just wanna say how I feel after reading this thread for months.
Good luck to those who made it in and happen to have a family home to stay at in HK, otherwise be prepare to live in the NT where rent are still quite hectic for what it is.
cheers~~
PA911
First of all, I just wanna say im not flying any shinny jets or even close to it! I first applied the the CPP back in 2004 or so, didn't get it. So went ahead and spent some money getting my licences and stuff, during then n now, met a few people who madde it into the shinny jet industry and some in CX/KA. As far as I am concerned, the spirit between some pilots are hitting rock bottom due to the reasons few of of you guys stated in this thread.
Now from a company point of view, yes making a profit is important, but if it takes alot out of their employee, then one day it's just gonna back fire on them. Yes, CX had a really good name in the industry and everyone wanted to be part of it, but if these new T's & C's take place....who knows what kind of damages gonna happen in the future??
I hope I am making sense, it's really just my 2cent cos I am not (yet) flying for the shinny industry. Some current CX pilots once told me to look else where if my hours are high enough for industry standard, it's just not worth the 5 years earning P2X where at the end of it, you cant not find jobs elsewhere with those P2X hours anyway, because they worht nothing to others. Please correct me guys, I just wanna say how I feel after reading this thread for months.
Good luck to those who made it in and happen to have a family home to stay at in HK, otherwise be prepare to live in the NT where rent are still quite hectic for what it is.
cheers~~
PA911
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I can vouch for the numbers being touted. I am a third year SO and my housing allowance is 50% higher than my basic salary. Everything is expensive here (except eyeglasses and dentistry as it turns out).
Bottom line - do not even think about signing for Cadet SO if you have a wife let alone kids. If single, it's viable but keep your options open as you will soon tire of being away from home (and the BS the company puts out).
DOG
Bottom line - do not even think about signing for Cadet SO if you have a wife let alone kids. If single, it's viable but keep your options open as you will soon tire of being away from home (and the BS the company puts out).
DOG
