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Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

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Old 30th Apr 2011, 22:52
  #2521 (permalink)  
 
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cx are shafting you !

All you guys out there with your negative attitude just stink. What it boils down to is that the cost of accomodation in Hong Kong is high.

The cost of other goods and services are comparable with other major cities.

Cost out London, Berlin, Paris, Tokyo, New York, the list goes on and on.

Everybody, everywhere is getting screwed, the bankers made sure of that !

I think that the guys with a trashy attitude like some of you have got, should get out of your ivory towers and look at the prospects that a lot of these wannabees have if they don't get a cadetship with cx.

They don't live in a cost free world, many experience a high cost of living already and manage on a pitance. They may not have loads of disposable income in HK but with a package that gives them around 450,000 hkd pa as starters, they will get bye. With SO salary increases annually being around 60,000 hkd pa for each of the first 4 years that soon takes these guys to close on 700,000 hkd pa.

What is it I keep hearing, the SO's don't fly, they just eat butties, not a bad income for a buttie muncher !

These guys will eventually get quality flying time, most of them are young enough to justify a company/carear move in 7 or 8 years time, a lot of them will not have even reached their 30's by then.

So change the record.

Companies employ staff to earn them money, it's called real life when they are constantly trying to screw you. Look at the rest of your industry, there isn't one airline that is not trying constantly to become more efficient and cost effective.

If you can't understand that the markets dictate the value of the goods, tough luck on you.

What I would also like to point out is that you guys who keep saying ' the SO's better not start bitching about not having money and the poor working conditions when they fly with me', you don't deserve to be called a professional in any field with that line of thought and attitude.

These guys just want a job that is better than the crap they are dealing with at home, so give them a break.

Also, all the absolute crap about , if you are offered a job don't bother taking it, the only guys that say they turned the job down were the ones that didn't really get offered one in the first place and either didn't get offered an interview after the paper sieve or failed one of the interviews.

You wanabees should go all out for this cadetsip, just pray that if you are successful you never have to spend a lot of time on the same flight deck as some of the dorks that have been on this thread.
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 23:15
  #2522 (permalink)  
 
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Exclamation Final Interview Gouge

Attended one in HK a couple weeks back (never had an initial interview) and was turned down. Since feedback is a courtesy they won't extend, I'll draw my own conclusions, (IMO I played their game well.) PM me if you want details on the interview.

My background:
- USA Regional FO
- 3,000 Total Hours (2,500 in the CRJ7)
- Nuclear Engineering major (probably a dead give-away as to who I am )

Our group talked at length about the housing allowance issue, as a couple of the guys had been offered a job in 2007 so they knew the differences. For me, it was just another example of how my services are worth less than the generation before me: Shareholders demand continually increasing profit margins, so the front-line workers get squeezed more and more. (Fortunately Cathay hasn't had to resort to Plan B: Business goes bad and shareholders want a quick buck, so management sells off all valuable assets, layoffs are plentiful, and the CEO takes a golden parachute as the company goes belly-up.)

Thank you Capitalism. :middlefinger:

(Where's the middle finger emoticon?)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, here's my take on the job offer:

- The negative comments related to this job are (understandably) posted by people who have a better job now, whether it be with Cathay or someone else. Good for them. But keep in mind you don't have their job: Criticism is easy to dish out when everything's good with numero uno.

- Do some research yourself on what HK$10,000 per month will get you in Hong Kong. Prices vary by location. Keep in mind though websites do a great job of making slums look attractive, and that real estate companies cheat on measuring square footage (i.e. including exterior walls, balconies, etc.) Floor plans also tend to maximize the amount of useless space available.

- Second officer is not a flying position. It's like an internship in a law office: Pay your dues and someday you may get to do the job you signed up for. If you're looking for respect out of your job, ("respect"... HA! Didn't that die out with Polio..?) or if you derive some sort of sick pleasure out of flying airplanes, (It's a job, not a way of life. I almost laughed at the final interview when the HR rep said "okay, so let's say you take the job, and yeah it'll be fun and exciting for the first year or two..." FIRST YEAR OR TWO?!? Try the first half-hour into my first ID..) this job may not be for you.

- This isn't a "stepping stone" job. If you want to fly somewhere else someday, skip the middle man.

- Last but IMO the most important factor: Family. Got a girlfriend/boyfriend? Plan on a quick marriage or separation, because Hong Kong won't sponsor the unmarried woman/man you're currently sleeping with. Want to start a family? Make sure they fit in your home: Literally. Want them to attend school in Hong Kong? Cathay will foot 90% of the tuition, but keep in mind there aren't enough English schools in the territory to keep up with demand, and waiting lists are hundreds long. Want your kids to grow up without pollution-induced asthma? Make sure you've got room in the budget for good air filters in your home. I wouldn't take them outside for long periods of time either (but that's just me.)

So there it is. If you pass the interview, and none of the above applies to you, take the job. If the low housing allowance is the ONLY factor in your decision, take the job. If (for some reason) they actually raise it again, and you don't get that raise, and there's better opportunities out there, tell them to f*** themselves and find a new job.
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Old 1st May 2011, 00:12
  #2523 (permalink)  
 
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The Rents

I wrote this on the 1st March in a response to a post by you:

Yeh, we have heard about it. Looking at your posts (Grand total of 2 and first registered Feb 2011) you seem to know more than any cadet should know. You even know more than pilots already here know. I would guess you are probably management trying to talk up the Icad scheme.
My opinion hasn’t changed.
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Old 1st May 2011, 02:18
  #2524 (permalink)  
 
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He's probably a school kid, management stooge or wind-up merchant. If he isn't, the 'value of the goods' that this particular market is dictating is poor indeed.

'Market forces dictate' that current crew, who have worked damned hard to get here will do all they can to discourage starry-eyed wannabes with SJS who are prepared to do the same job for less. The race to the bottom has gone on long enough. The 'dorks' and others that he will be undercutting will not only be captains, but first and second officers.

If he comes up to scratch during selection and grading (and judging by the spelling, grammar and attention to detail in his post a big 'if'), I and my fellow 'dorks' (with whom he will be sharing a cockpit for up to fifteen hours a time so he'll have to suck it up) had better hear lots of enthusiasm about those CX butties and what a great deal he is on just for eating them, not to mention the 'quality flying time' he is going to get .

There are some very good people on this thread who are doing their best to 'tell it how it is'.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 1st May 2011 at 03:29.
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Old 1st May 2011, 04:14
  #2525 (permalink)  
 
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We aren't saying don't join, we are saying don't join until the contract is equal to what the guys are already getting
how long would you assume it would take for something like that to happen?, judging by the 27 no shows in SFO and deferred cadet courses in ADL, maybe just soon enough they will offer better contract.
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Old 1st May 2011, 07:09
  #2526 (permalink)  
 
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Everybody everywhere is getting screwed? Nah.... Only the likes of weasels like yourself agreeing to it. It's called "consensual".

So "Rents" guys like me who turned it down are failures, eh? I flew my ar$e off in the outback & top end of Oz for 4500+ hrs flying approaches & in conditions that the pathetic likes of you can only study about in the hope of blabbering your way through an interview. I studied harder than the likes of you in your fictitious world could ever appreciate, without a classroom teacher or mentor for 2 reasons: a) my job & life depended on me knowing what I was doing & how to implement the systems knowledge, met, aerodynamics, rules, etc, and b) because that "used to be" the min standards required for CX.

Me & the others like me who PASSSED the CX interview to a FAR, FAR higher standard over 3 years ago do feel let down. It's CX's board game & they make the rules as they see fit. So be it - that's life. But when the self-satisfying naive & soul-for-sale children like you defend the lowering of a once great airline AND call into question / deny all what we did to earn the right to even strive for a CX job then you're going to get the kind of response you deserve.

You'll be the same tough guy on this forum kissing tail in the cockpit to the same people your ignorance slanders here. By your definition if a beer costs all others $5 you're happy to pay $7 because the landlord sees you as a SUCKER & stupid enough to line his pockets as such. Market forces mate!!!??? Or just a SUCKER and naive child being screwed over & taken advantage of as such?!

Market forces? Record profits equates to being offered & receiving LESS (dramatically less!) remuneration?

Market forces? Management receive pay increases of up to 68% over the same period (GMO / DFO??) over the same period pilots received NOTHING? Not to mention the massive bonuses despite their decisions costing CX millions (eg fuel hedging & price fixing). I'd like to see a pilot deliberately & knowingly breaking the law & being REWARDED for it.

Market forces? Has pilot remuneration EVER increased since say 1990 or has barely, if at all kept up with CPI influences? Or has it shown a steady decline?

In your eyes myself & the others who turned down this slap in the face are failures for not racing to bend over in the prison shower to pick up the gold-laced bar of soap....

Yeah "Rents", you're a genius. You know your stuff.

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 1st May 2011 at 07:59.
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:02
  #2527 (permalink)  
 
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If nobody accepted these crap conditions, CX would be forced to improve the contract.
In theory, yes. In practice, just never going to happen.

As I've tried explaining on this and other threads - it's a decent package when compared to others out there. That's the comparison new joiners will make, not with what it used to be (had they had the hours and joined on expat terms).

Simply put, for aspiring pilots out there with limited hours, facing the choice of going the regional/GA route (whilst paying for your own training) just makes no sense when someone like CX is going to do the whole thing for you and pay you more than you would earn at said regional.

Some will stay away because of what they've heard, or they have a longer-term picture and want to stay at home, but many more will come. For the training, the money, the SJS and, yes, even for the chance to "experience" HK.
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Old 1st May 2011, 09:39
  #2528 (permalink)  
 
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The likes of Dan Buster and 404 Titan are only trying to help and insulting them only shows a closed mind and if I was in their place would also not want to have you in the cockpit with me.

The package atractiveness is realtive though. Some dont have the means to pay for a ME-CPL-IR & Frozen ATPL and eve if they did they wouldnt be saving HKD 6 million over 5 years working for regionals in the US or bush flying in Africa. Loan repayments in countries where some of the applicants come from equals and sometimes out-weighs a salary deemed 'good' in said country.

I do agree that people who have the opportunity to fly locally at minimal cost and train part time and build hours should do so. Especially those who have no eurpoean residency restrictions and what not. Some just dont have tha luxury and have to go abroad to do ther training and that can become real expensive real quick when you start applying exchange rates and Living costs away from home.

Where Cathay really get you by the balls is by bonding you for 6 years to sit in a jump seat effectively ensuring that you cannot leave without the risk of throwing your career down the drain. I would presonally prefer bush flying Barons in Africa rather than eating sandwiches aboard an A340. To me that is THE deal breaker. I want to fly, thats why I want to become a pilot. The fact that Cathay is holding interviews every single month in 2-3 places shows that they are finding it hard to lure enough people and that alone should be considered a warning sign.

Its a shame since I believe its the people who have the common sense to refuse the offer or to question the conditions who Cathay should be hiring.
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Old 1st May 2011, 10:51
  #2529 (permalink)  
 
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FL999, I think depicts the main fear of potential cadets! Time to upgrade... not the money.
For experienced candidates that's a big off!
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Old 1st May 2011, 11:23
  #2530 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed G Orwell, If you actually had acquired some significant experience after the 6 years I think some would accept it and tighten their belts for a couple of years before leaving and Cathay would probably have to reconsider their conditions in order to keep their pilots from doing so. Their P2X thing is the perfect way for them to prevent this.

The eternity you have to spend in the Jump Seat almost singlehandedly makes the current deal a very bad one. Then come the facts that you would help in reducing T&Cs for everyone already there and live in a shoebox eating instant noodles every day and breathing proper oxygen only during layovers.
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Old 1st May 2011, 17:17
  #2531 (permalink)  
 
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It is not the time as SO. Those of us who did interview for the job "back then" have the hours to back it all up if need be. When I interviewed we were well aware of potential SO time. Look at past and present QF or ANZ SO time.... QF SO's are expecting 3-5 years and ANZ guys have done > 7 years not long ago. Have even heard of 11 years. (Not sure how true).

Time as SO on a P2X rating, the iCadet lack of experience, the bond (sorry! "forgivable loan") and the inability of those iCadets to hence leave until at very least 500 - 1000 hrs on [a] type, as well as the required "total time" of most airlines min entry levels leaves you in chains for far longer than 6 years. Management know it, they literally bank on it, but these kids choose not to see it.

Plain & simple it's the package. I have done the maths in every possible way, including offshore accounts, shelf companies, etc to make it work. I wanted CX and tried to find a way. The cold hard facts are that I WILL NOT be able to comfortably retire. The pilots and crew cannot trust management to honour a contract. To own my own property is not unachievable but a very distant goal: up to 15-20 years of strict (very strict) saving because initially as SO I won't be able to. Add any possibility of wife, kids, education, associated costs....? No. It can't be done on this salary in HK & the costs of living.

It's never been the seat I sit in or the bars on the shoulders to parade about the mirror in. It's about a CAREER that leaves me able to show a responsibility to a hopeful family & eventual retirement. This package CANNOT offer that.

There is no such thing as a free meal, unless you're in CX management receiving the MASSIVE bonuses as a result of this C-scale. Some of you claim it's easy to sit back as an employed pilot & judge. Yeah.... As Samuel Goldwyn said, "The harder I work the luckier I get."

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 2nd May 2011 at 06:49.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 10:30
  #2532 (permalink)  
 
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Hello all...

I have been trying to update my application for current seconf officer program. But this is the response I'm getting for past one week.


"The online application system is currently unavailable, please update your application information later.

If you need further assistance, please contact our eService Centre at +852 2747 2200 or send an email to [email protected]. (1099)"


Any one can help me out in this please???

I emailed them no response.

I called them in that no as well but it is connecting me to the ticket booking office an not to the HR dept....
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Old 2nd May 2011, 12:42
  #2533 (permalink)  
 
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E-service center it's IT support.

Cathay Pacific - Contact Us : eService Centre
G_Orwell is offline  
Old 2nd May 2011, 13:37
  #2534 (permalink)  
 
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@ G_Orwell

Thanks mate..
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Old 3rd May 2011, 05:12
  #2535 (permalink)  
 
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I understand ChinaBeached. What Im trying to say is that even if some would accept the financial deal albeit having been warned on numerous occasions of the downsides, the fact that you'd have to sit in a jump seat for the next 6 years should (In Theory) be the deal breaker because honestly, its not worth the sacrifice.

I do see a couple of changes on the CX website though. Very interesting.

HKD 45K Basic salary
15% Pension contribution
Schooling allowance etc.

No mention of housing allowance though. Anyone care to comment on these changes? I always tend to take 'Up Tos' with a pinch of salt. What do you guys think?
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Old 3rd May 2011, 16:11
  #2536 (permalink)  
 
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SO to FO

According to the just updated Cathay website, they only hire SO at the moment. My question is if anyone knows how long would it take for a pilot joining CX as SO, having 2500TT full ATPL and 2000h 737NG, to upgrade to FO?? After a while as a FO, what's the chances of getting a Base Port in Europe??

Thanks!!
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Old 3rd May 2011, 17:16
  #2537 (permalink)  
 
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Was told from SO to FO around 6 yrs....for base you are looking around 15+ yrs if ever....The wesite also say min SO pay around HKG $45,000...thats not really true...One has to ask....why is CX trying to play with the numbers to make it look attractive....
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Old 3rd May 2011, 19:54
  #2538 (permalink)  
 
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The base salaries they are quoting are including the HKPA for housing (10000HKD SO). No mention of a forgivable loan. Very vague advertising.

Not to keep beating a dead horse but in 08', before record profits, and oil at $130USD a barrel. The monthly salary would have been around 59000HKD if you include the housing allowance and obviously would go up substantially from there. They can afford to bring back the old scheme but they don't want to pay another dime for a future pilot's accommodation.

I love this quote,"We regularly review our benefit package to ensure its competitiveness." Its been reviewed and pushed down into the gutter like everyone else. Its all about being market competitive. Who cares if your base is the third most expensive city in world!
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Old 4th May 2011, 05:19
  #2539 (permalink)  
 
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hi

im so envious of you guys who are working @ cathay pacific and still un satisfied.. with the benefits u are getting.. I have little flying hours and regardless of what the company is going to offer im going to accept.

Because, cathay pacific is cathay pacific.

Up until now I haven't got a chance to be interviewed.
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Old 4th May 2011, 09:49
  #2540 (permalink)  
 
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After reading the preceding post, why are the words 'up until now' sending a shiver up my spine...?
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