Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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Originally Posted by holdmetight
I came back from flight grading nearly two weeks ago, got called and given the nod a few days back.
and can you reveal what did you exactly do during flight grading??
so far haven't heard much about what goes on during this final stage, other than the medical
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Advanced Flight Grading
I think I wrote about this quite a while back, with my post based on the research I had done. This time I am writing as someone who has actually been there and done that. Hope this helps people get a good picture on what to expect on arrival into Adelaide for advanced flight grading (people with 30-220 hours).
Upon arrival, you will be received by FTA staff and taken to the college. You are usually given 1-2 days' free time from the day you arrive to your first flight, but don't take my word for it, it is probably different for everyone depending on when you arrive and whether your instructor is immediately free to fly with you or not. During those 1-2 days you are given your uniform, grader ID tag, grading study materials, some introduction documents to FTA, a mass briefing and a tour around the college. You are also obviously given your rooms to stay in. Spend some time speaking to the cadets, as they are very friendly and will give you advice on how to tackle flight grading. Also read the study materials thoroughly, in particular the checklists. Individual instructors may or may not need you to be familiar with the checklist, but by knowing them it will show good preparation.
You will do 3 flights in the Grob115, spanning over 3 consecutive days (weather permitting). Each flight takes around 1.2-1.6 hours. You basically need to complete the following exercises:
Straight and Level
Applied Straight and Level
Climbing and Descending
Steep Turns
Incipient Stalls
Full Stalls
Wing-overs
Unusual Attitude Recovery
Normal Circuit
Glide Circuit
Forced Landing
You don't do all these in one flight. You do a combination of these exercises in your first flight, then in your second you move onto other exercises but you are still required to demonstrate that you have retained your knowledge of the exercises in your first flight. Then the third flight is where it all comes together and you are required to show them everything you've been taught in the previous flights. If there is something you have never done before or don't do to their standard, they will teach you and all you need to do is relax, pay attention and try your best to do what you are told. Individual instructors will give you stress, some won't, but it is all part of the assessment. Apart from pre-flight checks, you should not required to do anything outside actually controlling the aircraft, i.e. radio calls, fuel/loading calculations.
Following your completion of the three Grob flights you will do three IFR simulators in the generic B200 Kingair sim. You will be given a briefing before-hand and you will have materials to study, so don't sweat. Just pay attention during the briefing and make sure you understand, because the information they give is vital towards your completion of the tasks, especially if you have no IFR experience. Don't worry about the CSU and multi-engine features of the sim, they will give you help with it so it should not be overly difficult. Each simulator session takes around 1-1.6 hours, and throughout the 3 sessions you will do the following:
Basic Aircraft Handling
ILS
Tracking radials on VOR/NDB
Point-to-point navigation with VOR+DME and NDB+DME
Missed Approach
They will give you practice at each exercise before grading you. The sim session consists of you taking off from Parafield, flying around Adelaide doing all the exercises above, finally doing an ILS back into Adelaide airport. There is no wind in the sim so you should be able to focus on learning and flying the sim.
Finally, there are two tests that FTA will require you to complete. The first test is a computer-based test, whereby you are given a joystick and asked to fly a simulated aircraft through a tunnel of squares. You do this 10 times and I suppose an average score will be drawn. The second test is a difficult IQ test, similar in style and format to the ones you may have done in Stage 1. It is quite hard and impossible to finish so just try your best.
If you finish your grading before the prescribed 14 days in Adelaide, you are free to leave provided you give adequate notice to Cathay and the FTA staff. Ask the HR personnel at Cathay for more details during your briefing, or shoot them an e-mail if you are an international applicant. Advanced flight grading took 6 days for me to complete, and I was in Adelaide for a total of 8.5 days.
Some hints that could make/break your day:
Take Notes
You will be given debriefs and because your ability to learn is being assessed, always take notes and do some mental flying during your spare time. There is a lot of information to process so this is important.
Speak with other people
Cadets can obviously give you good advice since they have successfully been through the process. They are very friendly and should help you if you initiate contact. Your fellow graders are also a source of help and support if you need it. Everyone there can and are willing to help you, you need to be proactive in getting their support.
Be humble and polite
Everyone doing Advanced Grading will have a certain amount of flying experience under his/her belt. I think part of flight grading looks at whether or not one can take criticism and learn how to do things differently from when they were first taught. I would suggest you open your mind to how they teach you, and try to assimilate it. Remember, their teaching is actually preparing you for an airline career at Cathay, so it is very important to open yourself to their training.
Know your stuff
They will give you a study guide. As I mentioned earlier, know the stuff thoroughly. You might not get quizzed or may not ever use the information inside the folder, but if the instructors notice your preparation, they will give you extra marks for it. However, in particular try to get to know the T/O and climb checklist for the B200 simulator. It will come in handy and help you get things done quickly in an aircraft that can fly at speeds up to 220 KIAS.
Keep cool
Last but definitely not least - keep cool. You will be overloaded at times but provided you are as cool as a cucumber, you should be able to cope with it all, especially during the simulator sessions.
Upon arrival, you will be received by FTA staff and taken to the college. You are usually given 1-2 days' free time from the day you arrive to your first flight, but don't take my word for it, it is probably different for everyone depending on when you arrive and whether your instructor is immediately free to fly with you or not. During those 1-2 days you are given your uniform, grader ID tag, grading study materials, some introduction documents to FTA, a mass briefing and a tour around the college. You are also obviously given your rooms to stay in. Spend some time speaking to the cadets, as they are very friendly and will give you advice on how to tackle flight grading. Also read the study materials thoroughly, in particular the checklists. Individual instructors may or may not need you to be familiar with the checklist, but by knowing them it will show good preparation.
You will do 3 flights in the Grob115, spanning over 3 consecutive days (weather permitting). Each flight takes around 1.2-1.6 hours. You basically need to complete the following exercises:
Straight and Level
Applied Straight and Level
Climbing and Descending
Steep Turns
Incipient Stalls
Full Stalls
Wing-overs
Unusual Attitude Recovery
Normal Circuit
Glide Circuit
Forced Landing
You don't do all these in one flight. You do a combination of these exercises in your first flight, then in your second you move onto other exercises but you are still required to demonstrate that you have retained your knowledge of the exercises in your first flight. Then the third flight is where it all comes together and you are required to show them everything you've been taught in the previous flights. If there is something you have never done before or don't do to their standard, they will teach you and all you need to do is relax, pay attention and try your best to do what you are told. Individual instructors will give you stress, some won't, but it is all part of the assessment. Apart from pre-flight checks, you should not required to do anything outside actually controlling the aircraft, i.e. radio calls, fuel/loading calculations.
Following your completion of the three Grob flights you will do three IFR simulators in the generic B200 Kingair sim. You will be given a briefing before-hand and you will have materials to study, so don't sweat. Just pay attention during the briefing and make sure you understand, because the information they give is vital towards your completion of the tasks, especially if you have no IFR experience. Don't worry about the CSU and multi-engine features of the sim, they will give you help with it so it should not be overly difficult. Each simulator session takes around 1-1.6 hours, and throughout the 3 sessions you will do the following:
Basic Aircraft Handling
ILS
Tracking radials on VOR/NDB
Point-to-point navigation with VOR+DME and NDB+DME
Missed Approach
They will give you practice at each exercise before grading you. The sim session consists of you taking off from Parafield, flying around Adelaide doing all the exercises above, finally doing an ILS back into Adelaide airport. There is no wind in the sim so you should be able to focus on learning and flying the sim.
Finally, there are two tests that FTA will require you to complete. The first test is a computer-based test, whereby you are given a joystick and asked to fly a simulated aircraft through a tunnel of squares. You do this 10 times and I suppose an average score will be drawn. The second test is a difficult IQ test, similar in style and format to the ones you may have done in Stage 1. It is quite hard and impossible to finish so just try your best.
If you finish your grading before the prescribed 14 days in Adelaide, you are free to leave provided you give adequate notice to Cathay and the FTA staff. Ask the HR personnel at Cathay for more details during your briefing, or shoot them an e-mail if you are an international applicant. Advanced flight grading took 6 days for me to complete, and I was in Adelaide for a total of 8.5 days.
Some hints that could make/break your day:
Take Notes
You will be given debriefs and because your ability to learn is being assessed, always take notes and do some mental flying during your spare time. There is a lot of information to process so this is important.
Speak with other people
Cadets can obviously give you good advice since they have successfully been through the process. They are very friendly and should help you if you initiate contact. Your fellow graders are also a source of help and support if you need it. Everyone there can and are willing to help you, you need to be proactive in getting their support.
Be humble and polite
Everyone doing Advanced Grading will have a certain amount of flying experience under his/her belt. I think part of flight grading looks at whether or not one can take criticism and learn how to do things differently from when they were first taught. I would suggest you open your mind to how they teach you, and try to assimilate it. Remember, their teaching is actually preparing you for an airline career at Cathay, so it is very important to open yourself to their training.
Know your stuff
They will give you a study guide. As I mentioned earlier, know the stuff thoroughly. You might not get quizzed or may not ever use the information inside the folder, but if the instructors notice your preparation, they will give you extra marks for it. However, in particular try to get to know the T/O and climb checklist for the B200 simulator. It will come in handy and help you get things done quickly in an aircraft that can fly at speeds up to 220 KIAS.
Keep cool
Last but definitely not least - keep cool. You will be overloaded at times but provided you are as cool as a cucumber, you should be able to cope with it all, especially during the simulator sessions.
Last edited by holdmetight; 4th Dec 2010 at 04:47.
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Congrats Holdmetight!
I genuinely appreciate your contribution to this forum and I believe your information and support have help a lot of wannabes, me included. You are a vivid example of how people work hard to strive for a cadetship. I hope that someday I can meet you in person.
Just one question about flight grading. Is it still true that people with less than 30 hours flying experience will be graded on a G115 for 7 sorties? I hope someone with the most up-to-date information like you can confirm this.
Congrats again, seriously.
I genuinely appreciate your contribution to this forum and I believe your information and support have help a lot of wannabes, me included. You are a vivid example of how people work hard to strive for a cadetship. I hope that someday I can meet you in person.
Just one question about flight grading. Is it still true that people with less than 30 hours flying experience will be graded on a G115 for 7 sorties? I hope someone with the most up-to-date information like you can confirm this.
Congrats again, seriously.
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Chase3139
Is it still true that people with less than 30 hours flying experience will be graded on a G115 for 7 sorties?
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Selection Timeline
In case it helps anyone, here is the schedule by which I did the selection process. I was a local applicant, applying for the second time.
Submission of on-line application
16th December 2009
Received invitation e-mail for Stage 1
24th June 2010
Stage 1
8th July 2010
Received call for Stage 2/3
22nd July 2010
Stage 2
7th September 2010
Stage 3
8th September 2010
Received call for flight grading
6th October 2010
Flight grading
13th November 2010 - 21st November 2010
Acceptance call
2nd December 2010
Submission of on-line application
16th December 2009
Received invitation e-mail for Stage 1
24th June 2010
Stage 1
8th July 2010
Received call for Stage 2/3
22nd July 2010
Stage 2
7th September 2010
Stage 3
8th September 2010
Received call for flight grading
6th October 2010
Flight grading
13th November 2010 - 21st November 2010
Acceptance call
2nd December 2010
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773
People with more than 220 hours and have a CPL are put into the Advanced Entry course that takes 32 weeks. I am not sure but there is a TT course catering for people with 1500? hours or more, I think it is a 12 week course in Adelaide then back to HKG for type training.
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Hi all,
Firstly a big congrats to Holdmetight, a very well deserved result
Secondly, i wanted to post up a bit of my experience with the selection process.
I did not make it past stage 1
.
A bit about the Stage 1 assessments - this was done in HK
Wombat test. - don't worry if you don't know too much about this test, they will send you a booklet when you are invited for stage 1, explaining what it exactly is and instructions on how to play the game - the only thing i can suggest for this is read the instructions carefully and try and be familiar as possible with them before turning up. At the start of the test on the day, the game will take you through the instructions one more time, but once that time elapses, you are on your own to play the game and you cannot revert back to the instructions once the game has started, so hence being familiar with how the game works before the big day. The game itself is quite fun, but definitely draining.
Personality test
You are given some statements that best describe yourself and you have to rank them according to how well they describe you. No tips here, other than monitor the time you have remaining to complete the test.
Reasoning Test.
There are 2 parts. The first part you are only given a few minutes to complete a couple of questions. Then the next part you are given more time to complete a more extensive range of questions. They do get quite hard towards the end, so don't be worried if you find that during the test! Only thing i can suggest is, go through and complete all the questions you can, then come back to the ones you couldn't complete the first time round - spending too much time on one question will most likely penalise you in time for completing other questions.
Job Knowledge Test.
Can't remember exactly, but there should be about 50-60 questions from memory. The test itself shouldn't be overly difficult if you have studied the JKI booklet and have knowledge upto a BAK standard.
Interview.
The interview itself was quite easy going now that i look back on it, offcourse during it at the time i was dead nervous!
If you haven't already, you should read back on what people have previously posted about the questions they were asked in the personal section, because i got alot of them during my first part. Such as
1) what made you want to be a pilot
2) why Cathay
3) what do you like about HK
4) Have you set yourself a time frame on which to become a professional pilot
5) how would a close friend describe you
6) why did you choose what you did at uni
7) whats your favourite plane and why
8) locations we fly to
9) where do we conduct our flight training
10) have you looked at the cost of housing here? do you know we don't offer housing allowance anymore
11) how do you pay for your training
12) what are your interests
There were a few more, but its all been covered before.
Technical part.
At the time of my interview, i only had about 20-25 hours, so nothing major. The captain i got was very nice, and overall i thought the questions he asked were very fair, not easy, but something that would not be unreasonably beyond someone of my flight experience. He used to be a flight instructor so he knew how to tailor questions to suit someone of my level. The thing that i look back on and really pops out at me was how quickly i was asked the questions, it was like a machine gun, the questions just kept coming and coming. never really had a chance to stop. But it did go by very quick, before i knew it the interview was finished!
he started off with basic questions that are found in the JKI booklet, then moved onto questions of BAK level and very general questions about the aircraft i flew
1) how did you find the JKI booklet
2) what is the difference between true north and magnetic north
3) given magnetic north is this and variaton is this, what is my magnetic direction
4) what are the cycles of the piston engine
5) hows it different to a jet engine
6) what is ISA
7) given this height, what is my temp in ISA
8) tell me about the engine on your aircraft
9) how much fuel does it have, what fuel does it use
10) what plane is this? what will the controls look like if i am turning right
There were a whole bunch more that extended from the questions above (i.e. went to a greater depth), but i think these give a general idea of the level that was asked of someone of my experience. I think it really depends on who you get for your interview, so the questions probably are never the same between any 2 captains.
I did answer some questions that weren't quite right the first time, but the captain will lead you to the right answer in a subtle way to see if you can work out that you've made a mistake.
A week or so after my Stage 1 i was invited for the ICAO english test. This test does require concentration, but if you can speak and understand english reasonably well, then you should be fine. The test is made up of a few parts and goes for no more than about 40 mins.
1) you are given some words and you have explain what you think they mean e.g. if someone was to say "you're in a for a fight with this one", what do you think it means?
2) listen to some recordings of coversations, then answer questions about them
3) describe a picture, what do you see? then answer questions as if you were the person in the picture.
4) given a list of items, you select a few then explain why you chose them
5) watch a short video, answer questions relating to the video
I hope that helps, happy to answer anymore questions.
Rough time frame of the process
applied late Oct 2009
first interview Sept 2010
ICAO english test Sept 2010
Dec 2010 notified i wasn't successful.
- i actually got called, not emailed (although an email did follow the phone call)
It is a long process, but don't give up hope and continue with whatever you are doing be it training, working, studying etc, but don't just sit there and wait for luck to come! I would definitely recommend getting some flying lessons under your belt if you applied with 0 hours, you will certainly learn more about flying than reading books!
Goodluck everyone
Firstly a big congrats to Holdmetight, a very well deserved result
Secondly, i wanted to post up a bit of my experience with the selection process.
I did not make it past stage 1
.A bit about the Stage 1 assessments - this was done in HK
Wombat test. - don't worry if you don't know too much about this test, they will send you a booklet when you are invited for stage 1, explaining what it exactly is and instructions on how to play the game - the only thing i can suggest for this is read the instructions carefully and try and be familiar as possible with them before turning up. At the start of the test on the day, the game will take you through the instructions one more time, but once that time elapses, you are on your own to play the game and you cannot revert back to the instructions once the game has started, so hence being familiar with how the game works before the big day. The game itself is quite fun, but definitely draining.
Personality test
You are given some statements that best describe yourself and you have to rank them according to how well they describe you. No tips here, other than monitor the time you have remaining to complete the test.
Reasoning Test.
There are 2 parts. The first part you are only given a few minutes to complete a couple of questions. Then the next part you are given more time to complete a more extensive range of questions. They do get quite hard towards the end, so don't be worried if you find that during the test! Only thing i can suggest is, go through and complete all the questions you can, then come back to the ones you couldn't complete the first time round - spending too much time on one question will most likely penalise you in time for completing other questions.
Job Knowledge Test.
Can't remember exactly, but there should be about 50-60 questions from memory. The test itself shouldn't be overly difficult if you have studied the JKI booklet and have knowledge upto a BAK standard.
Interview.
The interview itself was quite easy going now that i look back on it, offcourse during it at the time i was dead nervous!
If you haven't already, you should read back on what people have previously posted about the questions they were asked in the personal section, because i got alot of them during my first part. Such as
1) what made you want to be a pilot
2) why Cathay
3) what do you like about HK
4) Have you set yourself a time frame on which to become a professional pilot
5) how would a close friend describe you
6) why did you choose what you did at uni
7) whats your favourite plane and why
8) locations we fly to
9) where do we conduct our flight training
10) have you looked at the cost of housing here? do you know we don't offer housing allowance anymore
11) how do you pay for your training
12) what are your interests
There were a few more, but its all been covered before.
Technical part.
At the time of my interview, i only had about 20-25 hours, so nothing major. The captain i got was very nice, and overall i thought the questions he asked were very fair, not easy, but something that would not be unreasonably beyond someone of my flight experience. He used to be a flight instructor so he knew how to tailor questions to suit someone of my level. The thing that i look back on and really pops out at me was how quickly i was asked the questions, it was like a machine gun, the questions just kept coming and coming. never really had a chance to stop. But it did go by very quick, before i knew it the interview was finished!
he started off with basic questions that are found in the JKI booklet, then moved onto questions of BAK level and very general questions about the aircraft i flew
1) how did you find the JKI booklet
2) what is the difference between true north and magnetic north
3) given magnetic north is this and variaton is this, what is my magnetic direction
4) what are the cycles of the piston engine
5) hows it different to a jet engine
6) what is ISA
7) given this height, what is my temp in ISA
8) tell me about the engine on your aircraft
9) how much fuel does it have, what fuel does it use
10) what plane is this? what will the controls look like if i am turning right
There were a whole bunch more that extended from the questions above (i.e. went to a greater depth), but i think these give a general idea of the level that was asked of someone of my experience. I think it really depends on who you get for your interview, so the questions probably are never the same between any 2 captains.
I did answer some questions that weren't quite right the first time, but the captain will lead you to the right answer in a subtle way to see if you can work out that you've made a mistake.
A week or so after my Stage 1 i was invited for the ICAO english test. This test does require concentration, but if you can speak and understand english reasonably well, then you should be fine. The test is made up of a few parts and goes for no more than about 40 mins.
1) you are given some words and you have explain what you think they mean e.g. if someone was to say "you're in a for a fight with this one", what do you think it means?
2) listen to some recordings of coversations, then answer questions about them
3) describe a picture, what do you see? then answer questions as if you were the person in the picture.
4) given a list of items, you select a few then explain why you chose them
5) watch a short video, answer questions relating to the video
I hope that helps, happy to answer anymore questions.
Rough time frame of the process
applied late Oct 2009
first interview Sept 2010
ICAO english test Sept 2010
Dec 2010 notified i wasn't successful.
- i actually got called, not emailed (although an email did follow the phone call)It is a long process, but don't give up hope and continue with whatever you are doing be it training, working, studying etc, but don't just sit there and wait for luck to come! I would definitely recommend getting some flying lessons under your belt if you applied with 0 hours, you will certainly learn more about flying than reading books!
Goodluck everyone
Last edited by orangeboy; 5th Dec 2010 at 08:57.
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Vancouver Stage 1?
Hi there.
I've been a long time reader but first time post-er.
Has anyone been invited to stage 1 on Jan 10 in Vancouver?
And for those that have been to stage 1 in Vancouver, are there any differences between the ones mentioned in this thread earlier and Vancouver interviews?
Thanks
I've been a long time reader but first time post-er.
Has anyone been invited to stage 1 on Jan 10 in Vancouver?
And for those that have been to stage 1 in Vancouver, are there any differences between the ones mentioned in this thread earlier and Vancouver interviews?
Thanks
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Vancouver Stage 1
hey 6cfn,
I have been invited to stage 1 on Jan 10 in Vancouver. Do you live in Canada as well ? Maybe we can meet up in YVR before the interview...
I have been invited to stage 1 on Jan 10 in Vancouver. Do you live in Canada as well ? Maybe we can meet up in YVR before the interview...
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Congrats holdmetight!!! You certainly deserve this with all the work you have put into this.
Thanks for the detailed information about the Advanced Grading. Hopefully I will be able to follow your footsteps when I reapply! Good luck with your training!
Thanks for the detailed information about the Advanced Grading. Hopefully I will be able to follow your footsteps when I reapply! Good luck with your training!
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Well done!!!!
holdmetight that's awesome news mate happy for you! just shows that if you put in the work you get rewarded. Never take no for an answer!!
Have you got a start date yet for your course?? i'm guessing u'll be on CP42 its starting in march, all the best mate and good luck on the course.
@NFAM how did your stage 2/3 go mate u've been a bit quite as well I hope it was good news!
that's awesome news mate happy for you! just shows that if you put in the work you get rewarded. Never take no for an answer!!Have you got a start date yet for your course?? i'm guessing u'll be on CP42 its starting in march, all the best mate and good luck on the course.
@NFAM how did your stage 2/3 go mate u've been a bit quite as well I hope it was good news!
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pahwa, are u waiting for an invitation to stage 1? if so, it may take a while before you get the invitation email - most people wait from 6-12 months after applying before being emailed.
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hey guys, a few people have already asked this but I havent seen any answers for it. Does anyone have an educated guess as to how many years the cadets can expect to be second officers. Ive got 2nd stage on the 11th in HK and I'd like to have some idea if they whip out that question. cheers
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from zero hours
Cadet - 61weeks training in Adelaide (end up with CPL and fATPL?? correct me if wrong)
Second Officer - 4-5yrs (baby-sitter to autopilot system + paperwork)
Junior First Officer - 1yr (right seat)
First Officer - 10yrs or so (right seat)
Captain (left seat)
Cadet - 61weeks training in Adelaide (end up with CPL and fATPL?? correct me if wrong)
Second Officer - 4-5yrs (baby-sitter to autopilot system + paperwork)
Junior First Officer - 1yr (right seat)
First Officer - 10yrs or so (right seat)
Captain (left seat)
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SG stage 1
FYI, i called hk HR yesterday afternoon as i wanted to suggest if i can switch my interview location from currently scheduled HK to SG. I was told that it is possible but they cannot promise me a interview at SG. There will be interviews conducted in singapore in 2011, but she cant confirm the month. Even so, she is sure that its not gonna happen in Jan and Feb. so for those who is waiting for their shot at SG, keep your hopes high!
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Second Officer!
Coobg... promotion from SO to JFO depends upon quiet a few factors 1)CX expansion 2)No of JFO's needed 3) No of SO's ready for JFO on the seniority list and so on...
The minimum time which is mentioned in the contracts for cadets is 36 months and then the above mentioned factors come into play!
If anyone has more recent info on times to JFO feel free to post here... but expect anything from 3-5 years.
good luck with stage 2/3!
happy landings...
FTP
The minimum time which is mentioned in the contracts for cadets is 36 months and then the above mentioned factors come into play!
If anyone has more recent info on times to JFO feel free to post here... but expect anything from 3-5 years.
good luck with stage 2/3!
happy landings...
FTP