SO Training - Whats Involved?
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SO Training - Whats Involved?
Hi all,
Currently sitting on a yes letter and expecting a start sometime in 2009. Starting to make some preparations regarding moving family etc and so after some detail on what the training entails.
Ive tried searches but dont seem to be getting anywhere. Can anyone run me through the whole process for a new hire SO? For eg does day 1 start in Hong Kong or is it straight to Aussie for all the theory to convert my licence? Is it full SO pay from day 1 or is it a training wage? If someone could run me through the process until being checked to line I would appreciate it.
One of the main things I need to figure out is when to ship the family up to Hong Kong, ie should I wait until Im completely finished with the training?
Any help would be great.
Cheers
Currently sitting on a yes letter and expecting a start sometime in 2009. Starting to make some preparations regarding moving family etc and so after some detail on what the training entails.
Ive tried searches but dont seem to be getting anywhere. Can anyone run me through the whole process for a new hire SO? For eg does day 1 start in Hong Kong or is it straight to Aussie for all the theory to convert my licence? Is it full SO pay from day 1 or is it a training wage? If someone could run me through the process until being checked to line I would appreciate it.
One of the main things I need to figure out is when to ship the family up to Hong Kong, ie should I wait until Im completely finished with the training?
Any help would be great.
Cheers
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Just get lots of practice makeing up the beds, your wife will surely let you do this......................
as a "Sheeting Officer" this is your most important duty
enjoy........................
as a "Sheeting Officer" this is your most important duty
enjoy........................
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To quote a good friend who's an SO on the 744...
It's the most "useless, non-satisfying makes-you-feel-worthless" job he's ever had. After 12 years of flying as an FO and FC for GA, regional and airlines, he's now been systematicly reduced to the one guy on the flight deck who is expected to know, do, and understand absolutely nothing. For the housing, paycheque and 18-days off a month you sell your dignity, self-respect and any professional pride you've ever had.
And just when you think things couldn't get any worse, you're rostered with a DEFO from your home town who's got less hours, less command time, and a lot less knowledge of both the aircraft and the SOPs and you get to sit in the back, make his bunk, sort out his Jepps and watch him screw up the EFIS check and radio calls while you realize that although he's 2 years junior to you, he'll tie up your base-slot and sit on it until he retires... at which time you're still stuck in Hong Kong on your 4th marriage and broke (once) again.
If you take the job, make sure there's something else in your life that gives you meaning and a sense of purpose. Cause this job will not.
I wouldn't go through it again. Especially not with the current outlook being 4 or more years as an SO, considering RA65, DEFO and DEC, 3-man ULH, reduction in capacity as a result of the new economic times and current malicious, rotten delays in SO-assesments conducted by the management in breach of the very intiontion of the CoS they offer you when you join. Don't let anyone tell you anything else... this is not where you want to be going and it's certainly not where you'll feel you belong.
It's the most "useless, non-satisfying makes-you-feel-worthless" job he's ever had. After 12 years of flying as an FO and FC for GA, regional and airlines, he's now been systematicly reduced to the one guy on the flight deck who is expected to know, do, and understand absolutely nothing. For the housing, paycheque and 18-days off a month you sell your dignity, self-respect and any professional pride you've ever had.
And just when you think things couldn't get any worse, you're rostered with a DEFO from your home town who's got less hours, less command time, and a lot less knowledge of both the aircraft and the SOPs and you get to sit in the back, make his bunk, sort out his Jepps and watch him screw up the EFIS check and radio calls while you realize that although he's 2 years junior to you, he'll tie up your base-slot and sit on it until he retires... at which time you're still stuck in Hong Kong on your 4th marriage and broke (once) again.
If you take the job, make sure there's something else in your life that gives you meaning and a sense of purpose. Cause this job will not.
I wouldn't go through it again. Especially not with the current outlook being 4 or more years as an SO, considering RA65, DEFO and DEC, 3-man ULH, reduction in capacity as a result of the new economic times and current malicious, rotten delays in SO-assesments conducted by the management in breach of the very intiontion of the CoS they offer you when you join. Don't let anyone tell you anything else... this is not where you want to be going and it's certainly not where you'll feel you belong.
Last edited by quadspeed; 20th Sep 2008 at 17:27.
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During my final interview, PPRuNe was mentioned in connection with my pre-interview preparations. I was asked if I'd read any of the posts regarding CX, and I replied that I'd read them all. I added that I assumed it was written by a very narrow selection of the pilots, most of who were probably angry with the world and would complain no matter where they worked. I honestly believed this, as I had friends already working for CX who informed me things weren't really as bad as you read on PPRuNe. So I disregarded it all, assuming my experience would be completely different.
I was wrong.
I was wrong.
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Im not at CX, so perhaps my opinion may not mean much as I dont know first hand how the day-to-day operations is conducted.
But with regards to all this bitterness, it begs the question- why are you guys still at CX? If its as bad as you say it is, why not quit? There must be something positive about the job otherwise you would not still be there.
I have 2 friends who are at CX and they both enjoy it. They admit the company has its issues and that there is room for improvement. But I think it all depends on where you are coming from and apparently, what fleet you are on. It seems the 777 guys enjoy the job more, while the 747 S/Os have it worse.
Im hoping one day Ill know first hand what the fuss is all about
But with regards to all this bitterness, it begs the question- why are you guys still at CX? If its as bad as you say it is, why not quit? There must be something positive about the job otherwise you would not still be there.
I have 2 friends who are at CX and they both enjoy it. They admit the company has its issues and that there is room for improvement. But I think it all depends on where you are coming from and apparently, what fleet you are on. It seems the 777 guys enjoy the job more, while the 747 S/Os have it worse.
Im hoping one day Ill know first hand what the fuss is all about
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I agree with what the other guys have said. Unless you come from a pretty badly paying job with no security or provident fund, I would take a close look at whats on offer.
The big plus is housing, if you are smart about it you can make alot of money. Usually, that means sacrificing lifestyle to live in a shoebox so you can pay it off quickly, then rent it for the income or sell it.
Another plus is the opportunity to take temp bases - if you can afford to, and also the chance to take a base, IF one ever becomes available in the port of your choice... like others have said though, hard to get with all the DEFO's coming into the system.
The negatives have been listed. They are all true. Time to upgrade is going to take a long time and there are only so many bunks you can make and only so many sandwiches you can eat.
Don't mind my handle, but get used to the real A-Scalers talking about the cost of filling up their choppers, buying houses in the snow and what type of Ferrari they'd like for their London home. They make about as much in a month as you will make in your first year, then they will not offer to buy you a beer on layover.
Get used to guys telling you not to take callouts, while all your mates do, and get an extra 20k a month for it while you do 'the right thing'.
The list goes on, it can be frustrating... apply to EK if you have the hours - you will upgrade to command quicker than it takes an S/O to upgrade to FO. If you can live in HKG, you can live in DXB.
If you dont have the hours for EK, come here and enjoy the S/O roster, the time off is great. Travel as much as possible, take temp bases and have a good laugh when you go to sim and you get a pat on the back for the worst ILS you have ever flown.
The big plus is housing, if you are smart about it you can make alot of money. Usually, that means sacrificing lifestyle to live in a shoebox so you can pay it off quickly, then rent it for the income or sell it.
Another plus is the opportunity to take temp bases - if you can afford to, and also the chance to take a base, IF one ever becomes available in the port of your choice... like others have said though, hard to get with all the DEFO's coming into the system.
The negatives have been listed. They are all true. Time to upgrade is going to take a long time and there are only so many bunks you can make and only so many sandwiches you can eat.
Don't mind my handle, but get used to the real A-Scalers talking about the cost of filling up their choppers, buying houses in the snow and what type of Ferrari they'd like for their London home. They make about as much in a month as you will make in your first year, then they will not offer to buy you a beer on layover.
Get used to guys telling you not to take callouts, while all your mates do, and get an extra 20k a month for it while you do 'the right thing'.
The list goes on, it can be frustrating... apply to EK if you have the hours - you will upgrade to command quicker than it takes an S/O to upgrade to FO. If you can live in HKG, you can live in DXB.
If you dont have the hours for EK, come here and enjoy the S/O roster, the time off is great. Travel as much as possible, take temp bases and have a good laugh when you go to sim and you get a pat on the back for the worst ILS you have ever flown.
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Thanks to those that sent me a PM. That info was exactly what I was after.
As for all the posts, well, I think some people need a bit of a reality check. For someone like myself making the first step into the major airlines Cathay is still a pretty good option. Im well aware of all the complaints, I know plenty of people working there, some who have left, others that are sticking with it.
The simple reality is that the airline industry is not what it used to be. Airlines in the States are going under with pilots being cast off. Growth elsewhere has slowed markedly, with the resultant drop in pilot recruitment. Job options today are just not that great. To hear people complain then of having to do 3 years as an SO seems a bit naive. That is still a pretty quick upgrade, many other airlines leave guys as SO for up to twice as long.
What I am getting at here is that actually Cathay is still a pretty good deal. It certainly isnt the days of being an A scaler any more, those jobs have long gone, but when you compare the job with a lot of others out there it isnt too bad. No it probably isnt the best, but for me at least there has been no call from Bill Gates to work 1 day a month on his GLex, so until that comes up, Cathay is the way to go.
Thanks again for the PMs.
Cheers
As for all the posts, well, I think some people need a bit of a reality check. For someone like myself making the first step into the major airlines Cathay is still a pretty good option. Im well aware of all the complaints, I know plenty of people working there, some who have left, others that are sticking with it.
The simple reality is that the airline industry is not what it used to be. Airlines in the States are going under with pilots being cast off. Growth elsewhere has slowed markedly, with the resultant drop in pilot recruitment. Job options today are just not that great. To hear people complain then of having to do 3 years as an SO seems a bit naive. That is still a pretty quick upgrade, many other airlines leave guys as SO for up to twice as long.
What I am getting at here is that actually Cathay is still a pretty good deal. It certainly isnt the days of being an A scaler any more, those jobs have long gone, but when you compare the job with a lot of others out there it isnt too bad. No it probably isnt the best, but for me at least there has been no call from Bill Gates to work 1 day a month on his GLex, so until that comes up, Cathay is the way to go.
Thanks again for the PMs.
Cheers
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From contacts of mine inside CX the guys who went as SO's are about 50/50 split - half hating it, the others finding bearable, ie a means to an end and a good chance for a career break. The only other option is going as an FO on the freighter fleet based at LHR
with some fairly unexciting flying and a 'hell' of a training department to deal with. This is only what ive been informed of from guys on the inside. So it seems like the only way into Cx these days is to go YOUNG as an SO, unfortunatly if your over 30 (like me) it doesn't look that attractive compared to the alternatives.
By the way BandH are you really a 51 year old SO?
with some fairly unexciting flying and a 'hell' of a training department to deal with. This is only what ive been informed of from guys on the inside. So it seems like the only way into Cx these days is to go YOUNG as an SO, unfortunatly if your over 30 (like me) it doesn't look that attractive compared to the alternatives. By the way BandH are you really a 51 year old SO?
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BandH,
He asked what the training was like, not for people's opinions. And he got a bunch of posts telling him how **** the job is. Obviously he made his decision, presumably an informed one, and it isn't helpful to have responses like that.
He asked what the training was like, not for people's opinions. And he got a bunch of posts telling him how **** the job is. Obviously he made his decision, presumably an informed one, and it isn't helpful to have responses like that.
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No, you are not helping at all. If you knew anything about the Canadian airline industry then you would know that Cx is one of the best opportunities available to Canadian pilots.
Last edited by northeast canuck; 22nd Sep 2008 at 20:15.
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BandH,
As Canuk says, I was asking about the training, and thanks again for those that sent PMs!
Obviously being outside of Cathay at the moment I cant know all the ins and outs of the company. Luckily however there is a wealth of info available, and so Ive made the best decision that I can from my position of being one of those waiting to get into the airlines.
Now Im sure I will learn a lot about the company once I join, and perhaps a lot of it will not be that great. At the end of the day though, I will at least have a job, I will be getting a reasonable salary and a lot of opportunities that other airlines dont offer. Much better that than sitting in the States trying to get a job competing against a huge number of type rated and experienced pilots. I wouldnt stand a chance, while at Cathay I do.
Thanks again for the replies.
As Canuk says, I was asking about the training, and thanks again for those that sent PMs!
Obviously being outside of Cathay at the moment I cant know all the ins and outs of the company. Luckily however there is a wealth of info available, and so Ive made the best decision that I can from my position of being one of those waiting to get into the airlines.
Now Im sure I will learn a lot about the company once I join, and perhaps a lot of it will not be that great. At the end of the day though, I will at least have a job, I will be getting a reasonable salary and a lot of opportunities that other airlines dont offer. Much better that than sitting in the States trying to get a job competing against a huge number of type rated and experienced pilots. I wouldnt stand a chance, while at Cathay I do.
Thanks again for the replies.
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rant on:
to those bitter unfulfilled CXers: what is then the airline to work for nowadays? SIA, FedEx, Qantas...what?
there must be an airline that is sans all the crap you must go through at CX. there must be that really really really good airline that everyone else knows about except the misinformed poor souls that join CX.
what? you're saying there's no such thing? that every airline in the world has its sh!t to deal with?
that's what i thought also.
don't like it? change it. can't change it? you change, or you move on. such is business, airline or not.
rant off.
T
to those bitter unfulfilled CXers: what is then the airline to work for nowadays? SIA, FedEx, Qantas...what?
there must be an airline that is sans all the crap you must go through at CX. there must be that really really really good airline that everyone else knows about except the misinformed poor souls that join CX.
what? you're saying there's no such thing? that every airline in the world has its sh!t to deal with?
that's what i thought also.
don't like it? change it. can't change it? you change, or you move on. such is business, airline or not.
rant off.
T
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BandH
You obviously havent tried looking for work recently. Always very nice to be sat in a job and bitch about all the problems, how about you have a look at things from the other side.
As Ive said, nowhere is perfect, but there are a lot worse places to go than Cathay.
As Ive said, nowhere is perfect, but there are a lot worse places to go than Cathay.
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I think some people need a bit of a reality check. For someone like myself making the first step into the major airlines Cathay
However, for the rest of us who left profitable airlines or airforce contracts with good seniority, wages and benefits to join the illusion that is a Cathay Career, the picture looks somewhat different. We were presented with two career paths; SO and DEFO freight. We were presented with a retirement age; 55. We were presented with a basing and seniority structure that allowed us to convince our families, friends and children that we wouldn't be in China forever.
If Cathay wants guys that will accept anything as long as it's better than nothing, than so be it. They might even get some guys to fly for free. But the ground is being aroded for the rest of us. Yes, one could always go back and rejoin at the bottom. And repurchase the old house. And once again leave good friends and collegues behind.
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BandH,
Dont try and blame me for the woes of the airline industry. By your own words you decided to make the same move as I. By your logic you are just as much to blame.
These attitudes regarding people starting out are ridiculous. What am I supposed to do, sit around, unemployed, refuse a job because people already in that job arent happy with conditions? Perhaps you need to be the one forcing some change so that new hires arent put in this position. Its not the fault of people outside of a company trying to get in, any problems that havent been resolved or that lead to worse condition are the fault of those in the company that havent forced an issue. Remember BandH, its you that are making all the noise about the problems, how about you fix them!
Dont try and blame me for the woes of the airline industry. By your own words you decided to make the same move as I. By your logic you are just as much to blame.
These attitudes regarding people starting out are ridiculous. What am I supposed to do, sit around, unemployed, refuse a job because people already in that job arent happy with conditions? Perhaps you need to be the one forcing some change so that new hires arent put in this position. Its not the fault of people outside of a company trying to get in, any problems that havent been resolved or that lead to worse condition are the fault of those in the company that havent forced an issue. Remember BandH, its you that are making all the noise about the problems, how about you fix them!
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That is exactly what the union is for, so how about you complain to them about your issues, rather than telling me that Im "dragging the professions to new lows" by joining up.
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Blah blah blah
Congrats on the job offer.
Please re-read post no# 5 by quadspeed. This is exactly how it is.
As for other airlines keeping SO's for longer than 4 years, I can only think of one or two other airlines that actually have SO's that are not cadets.
Quite a few of the guys who joined close to me have already left. Many others are looking.
If it's better than you have at the moment then come on over.
As I said, re-read post no# 5 by quadspeed.
Congrats on the job offer.
Please re-read post no# 5 by quadspeed. This is exactly how it is.
As for other airlines keeping SO's for longer than 4 years, I can only think of one or two other airlines that actually have SO's that are not cadets.
Quite a few of the guys who joined close to me have already left. Many others are looking.
If it's better than you have at the moment then come on over.
As I said, re-read post no# 5 by quadspeed.