AA A321 takes off after smashing ground sign
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: EDDM
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Avherald has indicated where the sign is located on the map:
The signs there are what 4-6ft tall?? How much did this aircraft bank? With wind right on the nose?? Are they not allowing for sufficient spacing during single rwy ops?
The signs there are what 4-6ft tall?? How much did this aircraft bank? With wind right on the nose?? Are they not allowing for sufficient spacing during single rwy ops?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This should never happen.
All ground furniture adjacent to a runway or taxiway MUST be frangible. If an airport fails to comply with regulations someone is due for a severe talking to.
All ground furniture adjacent to a runway or taxiway MUST be frangible. If an airport fails to comply with regulations someone is due for a severe talking to.
Just because something is frangible (i.e. will break or yield on impact), doesn't mean you can hit it without sustaining any damage.
What's the width of that strip? CL!
The width of the strip if it is standard (which I think it is) is 150ft plus (looks like) 60ft shoulder either side. What position the aircraft must have been in to hit that sign on rotation I can only imagine. All I can say is I am glad I wasn't a passenger on that flight!
yikes.
the damage is the outcome of a weirdness not the cause. QAR/DFDR/CVR will be interesting.
the damage is the outcome of a weirdness not the cause. QAR/DFDR/CVR will be interesting.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: KEWR
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Per the Port Authority website:
Runway 13R-31L is 14,511 feet long by 200 feet wide and is one of the longest commercial runways in North America.
https://www.panynj.gov/air-cargo/jfk-runways.html
Runway 13R-31L is 14,511 feet long by 200 feet wide and is one of the longest commercial runways in North America.
https://www.panynj.gov/air-cargo/jfk-runways.html
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Citing AVH,
"According to information The Aviation Herald received on Apr 12th 2019 ground tracks reveal the aircraft was dragging its left wing tip for quite some distance on the ground, the ground tracks even suggest the aircraft came close to ground loop.
The aircraft and left wing tip became airborne just ahead of the runway sign, the left wing tip impacted the sign, parts of which became embedded in the left wing tip. The wing also sustained according damage to its underside near the wingtip."
"According to information The Aviation Herald received on Apr 12th 2019 ground tracks reveal the aircraft was dragging its left wing tip for quite some distance on the ground, the ground tracks even suggest the aircraft came close to ground loop.
The aircraft and left wing tip became airborne just ahead of the runway sign, the left wing tip impacted the sign, parts of which became embedded in the left wing tip. The wing also sustained according damage to its underside near the wingtip."
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An A321 has a wingspan of 35.8 m, according to Wikipedia.
Assume it's on the centerline of a 61-meter (200-foot) wide runway.
30.5 m, runway centerline to edge - 17.9, half the wingspan of an A321 = 12.6 m (41 feet), distance from wingtip to runway edge.
An A321 should have a clearance of 12.6 m, or 41 feet, from each wingtip to each edge of the runway.
From the runway edge to the sign that was struck looks like another 75 feet or so, just guessing from the image shown. Let's call it about 22 m.
12.6 m wingtip to runway edge + 22 m runway edge to sign = 34.6 m wingtip to sign.
That would place the sign about 35 m (115 feet) from the wingtip when the aircraft is on centerline.
If all this stuff is correct then that machine must have been quite far off the runway when it hit that sign, about 120 feet laterally displaced on a runway that is 100 feet wide from centerline to edge. Wow!
Assume it's on the centerline of a 61-meter (200-foot) wide runway.
30.5 m, runway centerline to edge - 17.9, half the wingspan of an A321 = 12.6 m (41 feet), distance from wingtip to runway edge.
An A321 should have a clearance of 12.6 m, or 41 feet, from each wingtip to each edge of the runway.
From the runway edge to the sign that was struck looks like another 75 feet or so, just guessing from the image shown. Let's call it about 22 m.
12.6 m wingtip to runway edge + 22 m runway edge to sign = 34.6 m wingtip to sign.
That would place the sign about 35 m (115 feet) from the wingtip when the aircraft is on centerline.
If all this stuff is correct then that machine must have been quite far off the runway when it hit that sign, about 120 feet laterally displaced on a runway that is 100 feet wide from centerline to edge. Wow!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ya think....
..... when he rolled LEFT on rotation he might just have moved LEFT as a result, and collected the sign on the LEFT side of the runway, his LEFT wing being low enough to clip it.?
Do the newsrags deliberately mis-state the facts to allow them to spice up the headlines.? I think they do. Including the almighty Beeb.
Do the newsrags deliberately mis-state the facts to allow them to spice up the headlines.? I think they do. Including the almighty Beeb.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The wind given by tower prior to takeoff was 010 at 17.
Where do people get wind straight down the nose?
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can guarantee your margins will always be reduced by JFK. Pick the most into wind runway then pick another, an obsession with that Canarsie, and VOR approaches ....it’s like stepping back to 1975
What appears to have happened is that for yet undetermined reasons, right at rotation the aircraft lurched to the left with a significant wing drop. During the ensuing excursion, the left wingtip struck the 5000' remaining marker before becoming airborne. Passengers and flight attendants did report the damage to the flight deck, and the aircraft returned to JFK.
That is about all we know right now. Let the investigators investigate.
That is about all we know right now. Let the investigators investigate.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it turn out that crew skill was a contributing factor, then that will be fair game for comment. However, there are other possible causes. In fact, it is entirely possible that crew skill kept this incident from becoming a hull loss. Why don't we hold judgement until there is at least a preliminary report?
