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16th Apr 2019, 14:53
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

I disagree. It appears it occurred to someone...

I disagree. It appears it occurred to someone (the jump seat pilot) pretty quickly that it was a runaway. They got pitch under control and hit the cutouts. My guess is they re-enabled stab trim in a...
16th Apr 2019, 14:24
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

As has been pointed out many times in the two...

As has been pointed out many times in the two main threads discussing the 737 MAX crashes, the LT610 PF counteracted uncommanded (MCAS) nose-down trim on 21 separate occasions, yet for whatever...
15th Apr 2019, 12:21
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

Generally sensible post, however, it is...

Generally sensible post, however, it is absolutely reasonable to ask whether pilot skill / training was a factor.

The LionAir pre accident crew defused the situation with the help of a jump seat...
9th Apr 2019, 07:43
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

Well, [electrical trim] was cut out by the...

Well, [electrical trim] was cut out by the pilots. They had the option to re-trim the aircraft using electric trim before hitting the cutout..



Yes, it is sure. We know this because MCAS drives...
9th Apr 2019, 06:19
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

Well, it was cut out by the pilots. They had the...

Well, it was cut out by the pilots. They had the option to re-trim the aircraft using electric trim before hitting the cutout. I believe this "option" occurred to the crew close to the end when they...
6th Apr 2019, 12:40
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

​​​​​​A disconcerting mystery is why the crew of...

​​​​​​A disconcerting mystery is why the crew of the preceding LionAir flight didn't feel like they had miraculously dodged an insidious malfunction, and instead handed the aircraft to the next crew...
4th Apr 2019, 14:23
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

Thanks Gordon. Any help on the transfer of...

Thanks Gordon. Any help on the transfer of control from PF to FO at the time the aircraft attitude starts to go south ?
4th Apr 2019, 13:57
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

That's fair. I'll chase up a reference....

That's fair. I'll chase up a reference. Regardless, your characterisation of the FDR (that pilot-trim-up was involved in a losing tug-of-war with MCAS-trim-down) is incorrect. It is only the final 4...
4th Apr 2019, 13:07
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

I think it is generally accepted that full...

I think it is generally accepted that full nose-down stabilizer position at high airspeed, low altitude may be unrecoverable via the manual trim wheel.

We think we know that the ET302 crew...
4th Apr 2019, 12:45
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

You might have to explain that further. The...

You might have to explain that further. The LionAir crash FDR clearly shows short bursts of uncommanded nose-down trim (from MCAS), each one counteracted by PF-commanded nose-up electric trim,...
4th Apr 2019, 11:19
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

It's a reasonable point. However, after the...

It's a reasonable point. However, after the LionAir investigation, everyone knew the electric trim could be used to neutralize MCAS, even if temporarily (as the accident crew had done 20-odd times on...
4th Apr 2019, 07:10
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

I will wait for the official report. MCAS is...

I will wait for the official report. MCAS is clearly an unintuitive and potentially lethal system when triggered by faulty AoA data. I'm not going to blame Boeing, the FAA, the pilots or airlines...
4th Apr 2019, 06:01
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

The article doesn't seem to know what it's...

The article doesn't seem to know what it's talking about. MCAS is (temporarily) disabled by pilot use of the electric trim. There's no two steps down, one step up scenario at play here, where MCAS...
19th Mar 2019, 13:31
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

Although it may well turn out to be the case, it...

Although it may well turn out to be the case, it is still an assumption that a malfunctioning AoA vane induced MCAS-trim-response is involved in both incidents.

The Lion incident in particular is...
13th Mar 2019, 07:10
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

You are likely correct about Lion, but it is yet...

You are likely correct about Lion, but it is yet to be confirmed. There were flight control issues on that aircraft prior to the ineffective (unwarranted?) replacement of the AoA vane.
13th Mar 2019, 06:23
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

We are still awaiting confirmation that MCAS is...

We are still awaiting confirmation that MCAS is responsible for either crash.
12th Mar 2019, 12:57
Replies: 5,127
Views: 10,362,508
Posted By gmx

I think its important to remember that the Lion...

I think its important to remember that the Lion crew kept the aircraft reasonably steady for 6 minutes after MCAS issues presented, continuously and manually counteracting the MCAS nose down events...
29th Nov 2018, 07:26
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

Crew appeared in control

The pilots on lion 610 were in regular contact with ATC and as late as 20 seconds before impact with the ocean they indicated their preferred flight level. This suggests they were not under duress in...
28th Nov 2018, 06:39
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

Previous crew encountered same problem and dealt...

Previous crew encountered same problem and dealt with it safely. Th accident crew had the benefit of that experience (from the write up). They also battled the trim for 6 minutes clearly...
26th Nov 2018, 07:10
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

That said, the previous crew had dealt with it...

That said, the previous crew had dealt with it successfully despite (probably) having no idea about MCAS. They identified the issue as a runaway stabiliser and dealt with it accordingly. Even though...
24th Nov 2018, 00:05
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

Pilot error ?

The previous crew counteracted MCAS for a while before activating the CUTOUT, in accordance with the runaway stabiliser procedure. The accident crew were also counteracting MCAS for six minutes but...
21st Nov 2018, 14:28
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

The point you make is precisely the one I've been...

The point you make is precisely the one I've been attempting to make. The PF seems to have been counteracting uncommanded nose down trim for six minutes prior to the dive. Isn't that the definition...
21st Nov 2018, 13:29
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

​​​​​ Your description doesn't make sense. The...

​​​​​ Your description doesn't make sense. The crew radio'd a return to base early in the flight. Assumption is they disengaged autopilot at that point, or it abdicated. They then had the aircraft...
19th Nov 2018, 23:13
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

MCAS apparently only operates with AP disengaged....

MCAS apparently only operates with AP disengaged. The fact that the EAD refers to the runaway trim procedure seems to indicate that the FDR indicated runaway trim. As I've mentioned elsewhere, if...
16th Nov 2018, 07:38
Replies: 2,100
Views: 1,159,577
Posted By gmx

Does MCAS explain fr24 data

If MCAS is a key contributor to this crash, how does it fit with the fr24 data for the flight ?

For MCAS to be implicated, the pilots have disengaged AP or it has disengaged itself, right ? When...
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