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22nd Mar 2013, 13:46
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

MSA - TAA - MSA - MEA - MOCA

I got to the impression that because of differences for the used similar sounding abbreviations - e.g. MSA - on the two sides of the pond, a bit of a confusions has started and there is talking...
20th Mar 2013, 19:56
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Thanks for the update. This overlay confirms my...

Thanks for the update. This overlay confirms my assumption which led to my post # 68.
Will be very interesting to read the findings of NTSB and FAA.
17th Mar 2013, 21:28
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

pattern

Okay gentlemen, before we go too far off track I admit my phrasing was misleading.:ugh:

For the sake of a correct discription I cite what is written in ICAO DOC 8168 PANS - OPS Vol. II - Part VI,...
17th Mar 2013, 19:52
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Yes, agreed, you know it, I know it and many...

Yes, agreed, you know it, I know it and many others too. But fairness dictates to wait for the results of an independent evaluation and research.
17th Mar 2013, 19:40
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

BOAC you were too fast for me to enter that...

BOAC

you were too fast for me to enter that of course it doesn´t make a difference to fly right or left hand holding patterns. But in my - past world - there was a preference and that was called...
17th Mar 2013, 19:36
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Because it is right hand and towards the only...

Because it is right hand and towards the only real obstacle in miles.
To have it mirrored and flown in standard turns can´t be that big of a problem.
Had the pattern been on that side it appears...
17th Mar 2013, 19:19
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

The RNAV procedure as published is safe, though...

The RNAV procedure as published is safe, though it shows a weird holding pattern !!
However, that is only correct to say if the published altitudes are obeyed.

Moving the IAF closer to the rwy...
17th Mar 2013, 17:15
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

The sad part of the story is - according that...

The sad part of the story is - according that FlightAware record > see #40 link - untill few minutes before the crash they were at a safe altitude.
So, what made them descend so rapidly ??
- a yet...
17th Mar 2013, 16:20
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Zeffy

Plse check aterpster # 44 link to the approach map. You will see there is no procedure altitude of 2000 ft at the IAF ZEDAG.

The 2000 ft (plus) clearance was only good on that awy V 453. Leaving...
17th Mar 2013, 08:45
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Fully agree!! At the very moment they turned...

Fully agree!!
At the very moment they turned off AWY V 453 MEA no longer was valid for them, instead the mentioned MOA 5400 ft.

With that now no longer applicable " to maintain or above 2000...
16th Mar 2013, 18:38
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

BOAC

Looks like they had a good tailwind>> check weather in AvH report!
Could that fairly steep descend indicate some ice problems ? Don´t know how good the ice provisions are on a Be 1900??
Was...
16th Mar 2013, 16:24
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

aterpster

I checked in FlightAware for a track of the flight and found this:Alaska Central Express (KO) #51 (http://de.flightaware.com/live/flight/AER51/history/20130308/1615Z/PAKN/PADL)

I´d like to say now...
15th Mar 2013, 10:46
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Probably the understanding of clearances on this...

Probably the understanding of clearances on this side of the pond differs ??
As I see it, this clearance covered any level between 2000ft. and as high as they could fly. That is one of the reasons...
15th Mar 2013, 09:48
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

Yes, fully agree!! Interesting reader comments...

Yes, fully agree!!
Interesting reader comments under that Aviation Herald report!
15th Mar 2013, 09:19
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

BOAC

Admit, to mention these words might be somewhat misleading. The assumption that they were flying on just flight plan data and reporting to ANC ATCC via a radio relay station might be correct. The...
15th Mar 2013, 08:24
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

aterpster

What I missed yesterday when reading your first post was the height of the crash site. Started a search for and found it in here:
Crash: Ace Air B190 near Dillingham on Mar 8th 2013, wreckage found...
14th Mar 2013, 20:32
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

ATC Watcher Yes, you´re correct, forgot...

ATC Watcher

Yes, you´re correct, forgot about that "limitation" !!
Never the less, in my active years I wouldn´t even have gotten it in my mind to clear a flight below MSA. Probably part of the...
14th Mar 2013, 20:04
Replies: 108
Views: 38,895
Posted By Annex14

wrong clearance ??

I agree with what was posted here before. However, some remarks from an ATC - Dinosaur.
The flight was IFR in IMC en route from King Salmon to Dillingham. That routing indicates the probability that...
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