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Forum: Tech Log
11th Aug 2011, 02:29
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Looking toward the future, how much nose up trim...

Looking toward the future, how much nose up trim do you really need at FL350?

Are you ever going to drop the flaps up there?

Maybe the control laws need to be looked at in this regard.

...
Forum: Tech Log
4th Aug 2011, 05:44
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Takata, Between the spikey areas of the AOA...

Takata,
Between the spikey areas of the AOA trace, there are brief interludes where there is a single smooth trace (apparently by all 3 probes). No spikes, and the AOA appears to briefly decrease...
Forum: Tech Log
4th Aug 2011, 04:39
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Takata. If I understand you correctly, and read...

Takata.
If I understand you correctly, and read the trace correctly, when the system considers the value of the AOA to be invalid, it applies a zero value to the signal which is momentarily...
Forum: Tech Log
4th Aug 2011, 03:07
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Dozy, The spiky traces are merely an indication...

Dozy, The spiky traces are merely an indication of how confused the computers were.
I can promise you that those AOA vanes were essentially pegged to the high AOA position after the stall, moving...
Forum: Tech Log
3rd Aug 2011, 01:22
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Dozy I've been on the road a bit, but is this a...

Dozy
I've been on the road a bit, but is this a personal conclusion, or a BEA statement?
To my mind, the aircraft was only unrecoverable when they ran out of altitude with which to recover. I...
Forum: Tech Log
3rd Aug 2011, 01:04
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

From Thermalsniffer's integrated transcript,...

From Thermalsniffer's integrated transcript, Note, and ACARS in post #1323
Apologies if I have missed an explanation earlier, but why would PF think he had lost the vertical speed? That indication...
Forum: Tech Log
27th Jul 2011, 04:54
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Hi Gums, I plan on looking at the control input...

Hi Gums, I plan on looking at the control input traces, looking for synchronization between lateral inputs and nose up inputs. If so, wouldn't that infer cross channel inputs?

My understanding of...
Forum: Tech Log
27th Jul 2011, 01:37
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

DJ77, I think we have already seen what can be...

DJ77, I think we have already seen what can be done with an aircraft when it doesn't have good airspeed information to the computers. I concur with Gums that it would be easy to duplicate this...
Forum: Tech Log
25th Jul 2011, 05:47
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Hi Grity, That was posted well over a year ago,...

Hi Grity,
That was posted well over a year ago, and is mostly a regurgitation of Davies excellent book. That pitching moment curve Davies provided was no doubt derived from a T-tailed aircraft and...
Forum: Tech Log
25th Jul 2011, 01:44
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Dutch M HN39 has done an energy matching...

Dutch M
HN39 has done an energy matching simulation (segment by segment) combined with aerodynamic assumptions. (Believe it was in the prior Tech thread.) His conclusion was that the final climb...
Forum: Tech Log
25th Jul 2011, 01:23
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Frames of reference

Dutch M
Hi,
I don't really want to discourage an ambitious attack on the AF447 energy question, but let me add a few additional questions to your approach for an answer.

Have you added in the...
Forum: Tech Log
20th Jul 2011, 07:30
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

...Me too PJ2! I hope BEA is able to get to the...

...Me too PJ2! I hope BEA is able to get to the crux of the problem. The CVR will be key in this.
Forum: Tech Log
20th Jul 2011, 03:53
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Retired F-4, as a fellow Phantom Pflyer, I think...

Retired F-4, as a fellow Phantom Pflyer, I think we both appreciate that it would likely take 10, 000 feet and more to recover AF447 from its deep stall. Until the AOA was reduced, it would not...
Forum: Tech Log
17th Jul 2011, 23:04
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Until all the 'i' s are dotted and all the 'T' s...

Until all the 'i' s are dotted and all the 'T' s crossed, the report will not be available, otherwise some of our clever sharp eyed folks will discredit it. Every statement of fact will be checked...
Forum: Tech Log
16th Jul 2011, 06:15
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

If you are getting a stall warning, it is because...

If you are getting a stall warning, it is because you are maneuvering (applying g).

Relax back pressure means do not pull so hard on the stick-period.

Using the trim wheel would have you...
Forum: Tech Log
14th Jul 2011, 06:22
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

I think I have mentioned this before, but if an...

I think I have mentioned this before, but if an aircraft is pitching down after encountering a deep stall and has a significant pitch rate going while just getting into flying airspeed range, it is...
Forum: Tech Log
12th Jul 2011, 06:06
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Yes it did, but look at it from the standpoint of...

Yes it did, but look at it from the standpoint of the PF. He got a stall warning and applied what to him seemed like an approach to stall recovery, and the stall warning eventually extinguished...
Forum: Tech Log
12th Jul 2011, 05:53
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Hi Takata, Just a brief note, my assumption is...

Hi Takata,
Just a brief note, my assumption is that the trim initially traveled slowly nose up and began to really move as the aircraft approached the stall. I do not attribute the nose up attitude...
Forum: Tech Log
12th Jul 2011, 03:39
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Takata, Quote: ...

Takata,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinbird
The problem with the trim is...
Forum: Tech Log
12th Jul 2011, 02:17
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Dozy, multiple quotes: ...

Dozy, multiple quotes:
Originally Posted by Machinbird ...
Forum: Tech Log
11th Jul 2011, 05:34
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

Takata, The problem with the trim is that it...

Takata,
The problem with the trim is that it moved to a high aircraft nose up setting without crew awareness.
It appears that a FBW aircraft requires the pilot to know exactly what mode the...
Forum: Tech Log
11th Jul 2011, 05:09
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

JD-EE, we were temporarily lead astray by forum...

JD-EE, we were temporarily lead astray by forum members who apparently believed that autotrim would not resume control once you made a manual trim input. PJ-2 has kindly set us straight (with...
Forum: Tech Log
11th Jul 2011, 03:32
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

For those interested, The Shadow's post is on pg...

For those interested, The Shadow's post is on pg 61, #1218 R&N thread. We have discussed similar issues on the Tech Log threads, although not in such a concentrated manner.
It is pretty obvious...
Forum: Tech Log
10th Jul 2011, 21:07
Replies: 1,998
Views: 512,628
Posted By Machinbird

I've been thinking about where BEA is likely to...

I've been thinking about where BEA is likely to be going in their investigations of the human factors aspect of this accident.

I suspect the words 'cognitive fixation' will factor significantly...
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