Seagull87, do the Italian police have helicopters? See my previous post 393 and the reply 396. If your local airport has a serious problem, its time to send for the local copper chopper.

200 hrs community service
 

for illuminating police helicopter: BBC report here
BBC News - Laser light man avoids jail term

Another BBC item on the situation in the UK including the rising number of events.

BBC News - Crackdown on laser pen yobs

Helicopter laser thug jailed for four months

Jailed: Liam Coe flashed a laser pointer at a police helicopter

A thug who tried to dazzle an airborne police helicopter pilot by shining a green laser pen at him has been jailed for four months.

Liam Coe, 21, shone it from the ground at the cockpit of the aircraft being flown at 600ft by Captain Richard Hornby over Manchester.

Kim Irving, prosecuting, said: 'The pilot said it could have been very dangerous.'

Coe, from Hollingworth, Greater Manchester, pleaded guilty to recklessly acting in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft.

Jailing him on Friday, Judge Andrew Lowcock said: 'That was the most appalingly dangerous thing to do. It could have had the most terrible consequences. People involved in these things must go to prison.'

Helicopter laser thug jailed | Mail Online

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/...77_235x284.jpg

Sometimes they just look like brainless thugs

Liam Coe

... and sometimes that look is aspirational for them!

Lafite

I think the issue is getting exaggerated. We have bars and clubs near the Chiang Mai airport (VTCC) which draw attention to their establishment by projecting lasershows in the sky being the airport within a 2 mile distance. I get struck all the time and I am more worried about fireworks getting into my prop than getting struck by harmless, low powered key chain lasers or even laser projections.

There are laser shows in the clubs crossing the visitors eye, too. Just the time of exposure to the eye is so short (and in an aircraft so much shorter due to higher speed) that it wouldn't harm.

There is no way anyone could keep a laser directed to your eye in an aircraft for a significant time so it could do harm. (At least not with commonly available lasers).

Everyone who doesn't believe it, go to a club with a laser show and see for your self.

Much a do about nothing. Again another way of making a dumb kid a criminal one.

The issue definitely is not exaggerated, and no pilot should say otherwise! Lasers can be dangerous if improperly used and the greatest danger is from beams projected directly into the eye. These can be focused by the lens (in the eye) into a very small and powerful spot capable of burning the retina and blinding people. The rules and regulations on public laser shows and displays differ from country to country although most countries follow the IEC-825 regulations. In the USA laser projection equipment needs a 'variance' and each show must be reported and have a 'site variance' issued by the CDRH. In Canada public shows and displays must be reported to the Radiation Protection Bureau in Ottawa. Before you can plan a public laser show, you have to check with the authorities having jurisdiction over radiation protection and health in your area. In laser shows
there are two main types of beam effects, static and dynamic. Static beams are usually turned on an off and may be bounced from mirrors to create a beam matrix or sculpture in the air. Dynamic beam effects are moving beams that may include sheets, fans, cones or blades of light moving above and through the audience.
 The audience exposure is brief and of negligible power, and effect to the observer eye. -Obviously designed that way, if you blind the audience they are not going to be able to see and appreciate the show! Unlike a show where the beams are fast moving, or defused, a laser attack on an aircraft in flight is a deliberate attempt to keep the laser beam stationary on the aircraft for a protracted time and does at the very least cause flash blindness if you are unlucky enough to be on the receiving end., it’s a clear interference with the safe conduct of the aircraft and the practice should not be condoned in anyway. Any laser directed at an aircraft even if it is from a show should be reported.

rokami93 Whatever you as a 300 hr PPL think, it's a real problem to professional pilots in many parts of the world.

The risk of eye injury is only one of the dangers.

Loss of night vision even temporary is dangerous, especially to police/EMS helicopters at low level over cities.

Its happened to me just a couple of months ago!

Mindless :mad:

I think you're simply missing a point.
More and more yobs are getting hold of the same kind of high-power l@sers that are used for 'l@ser shows' etc. (which CAN be handheld and battery powered) and think it's "fun" pointing them at low-flying aircraft and helicopters.
And we're NOT talking about what you call "harmless, low powered key chain l@sers".
And with helicopters in particular, it's not that difficult to "hold the beam on the target".
And with helicopters in particular, with plexiglass canopies "crazed" with a myriad minute scratches and cracks, lighting it up with a l@sers means rendering it opaque...

So please, rokami, find out what's going on, before you post like you did...

CJ

For how long do you think you can reasonably focus the laser to the the eye of a pilot in an aircraft flying with a speed of 230 kts or 440 km/h, 1000 m above? You fly with a speed of 120 m/s and what could the be size of the laser to hit your eye?

It will pass for a fraction of a second, and it distracts, disturbs or whatsoever, but it doesn't harm. At least not that much that it justifies to put an 18 year old to jail.

You are right on that, especially for pilots of helicopters flying at night with scratched canopies it can be annoying. And please, don't get me wrong: I don't think it is good, excuseable or any better because it is more of an issue to a helicopter pilot at night. Btw, if you fly with a scratched canopy it will also be very annoying flying against the sun, so I would work on that.

Nevertheless, the cases I have read so far they explained a scenario where an airline pilot in its cockpit called the attention to the police. The police then flew right to the area where the lasers were detected and followed them. If they were worried at all that they could risk their life or loose control of their helicopter, they wouldn't have opted for this way of chasing down the elements of crime?

Maybe you missed it: my point is that the issue is exaggerated, not wrong. Something needs and should be done about it, but I don't think it is that dangerous that it justifies to lock up a stupid kid with criminals.

I didn't take the time to look up your qualifications, but I am quite sure no one has ever lost control of the aircraft because of a laser, not even you although it seems you get irritated quite easily.

Again, don't get me wrong: it is stupid to la-ser aircraft. As much as I hate it when kids pressed all the buttons of the elevator I am hopping in and this way making it stop on every floor before I can get out again. But it is not that dangerous that you have to declare a stupid kid a criminal one and lock it up with criminals.

rokami93
Try reading the very first post that started this thread and the appeal court decision in post #82.

It's not the only laser v helicopter incident mentioned in the thread, just one example.

B.

Another report- an air ambulance
 

BBC report
Laser 'blinds' air ambulance crew

The lives of an air ambulance crew and a seriously injured man were put at risk by someone shining a laser pen at the pilot as he was trying to land.
Warwickshire and Northamptonshire Air Ambulance said a high-powered beam had obscured the flight instruments and the pilot's view a number of times.
The aircraft was carrying a man, 37, from Kent who had fallen 29ft (8.8m) off scaffolding in Leicestershire.
It managed to land safely at University Hospital Coventry and Warwickshire.

'Serious matter'
The ambulance service said a laser pen had been shone by someone sitting in a car parked close to the hospital's landing pad at about 1500 GMT on Wednesday.
It was shone into the helicopter cockpit while it was landing and again when it was taking off, the service said.
Steve Porter, air operations manager said: "This is a really serious matter.
"Not only is this childish prank putting lives at risk as it is difficult for the pilots to see, but it also adds valuable time on to a life saving mission as we try to land the helicopter and transfer seriously ill patients to further care."

The green lasers you can buy on ebay for 50bucks, with a range of 12000 to 25000ft fall into the Class III category, and generally are powered from 5–500 mW. Lasers in this category can cause permanent eye damage with exposures of 1/100th of a second or less depending on the strength of the laser, thus protective eyewear is recommended when direct beam viewing of Class III lasers. 1/100th of a second is faster than the eye blink reflex, there by the laser will cause damage to your retina before your natural blink reflex to protect the eye can kick in.-A fraction of a sec and your are blinded, that’s all it takes. If you think that’s exaggerated and wont do any damage to your eye, that’s your call there is plenty of data available if you do the research, I would prefer to err on the side of safety.

Laser shining and bricks on rails
 

I have personally never understood why anyone caught doing this sort of thing is not charged with attempted murder. These people surely should understand the potential seriousness of doing such things.

Rokami93, by your comments and general attitude I take it that you have never been on the receiving end of a laser illumination. As for making this dumb kid a criminal, I believe that he was one already. If he had admitted the offence and did not have a criminal background then he would have been entitled to a caution. His 'background' is taken into account as is the nature of the offence such as was it a single ilumination or a sustained one. I don't know many helicopters that travel at 230kts so you must be referring to airplanes. Most airplanes are hit on final approach when there speed is relatively low, their airframe ''dirty' and their glidepath predictable. They are hit at a time when they at a critical stage of flight, with very few options! The people that target Police helicopters do not give a quick 1/1000 of a second sweep, that is just the attention getter, they continue to target the cockpit. The effects of sunlight on a scratched or dirty canopy is very different from that of a laser. Laser illuminations tend to happen at night where the laser will saturate the receptors of the eye and obscure the background detail (limited though that information is anyway). Sunlight does not refract around the cockpit like shards of glass as lasers do. When we are illuminated or called to an area where illuminations are reported we assess the risk to ourselves. I have made decision in the past to not attempt to apprehend the perpetrators because the risk to ourselves was too great (low cloud/viz, local hazards and geography of the area). By your arguement firemen should never go into burning buildings to rescue people because they are at risk! This issue has been highlighted in the press and other media to inform people of the dangers they are imposing on others by their actions. Anyone who ignores such information is only portraying themselves as a danger to others. Please remember also that the reckless endangement of an aircraft is an offence.

As someone who has been targeted several times by lasers I am pleased to see that one idiot has been removed from society, allbeit temporarily. It is sad though that he comes from the small village where my parents live.

BTW, does anyone know why the "a" in l a s e r becomes "@"??

Yes, I have had laser reflections on my canopy before. A bit further up I explained. Also, laser in a club where I went out, passed my eye more than once. This is far closer than sitting in an aircraft.

I didn't want to make a statement or judge on a single case which I don't know and cannot evaluate. My statement was more of a general nature and aimed to other forum participants who seem to be in favor of lynching.

That is, indeed, nasty and stupid. But I guess we have make a difference between guys blinding police helicopters to keep them away from doing their job and a bunch of stupid kids trying to aim at passenger aircraft on their approach.

Anon, let's carefully balance the reasons and awaited outcome for the doings of a fireman who knows that there is someone about to die in a burning house if he doesn't get in and rescues him and on the other side an eager policeman in his 3 million dollar helicopter and 500 l of fuel over residential areas chasing kids which make the stupid intent to reach the eye of an airline captain in his cockpit are completely different stories.

• What is the probability that someone gets harmed when kids are pointing with a laser on a landing aircraft? - Near zero.
• How much harm will we cause to a kid and to public interest chasing it down in a 3-million-dollar-helicopter? -Maybe 2000 Bucks for the helicopter and 20-60K for prosecution and jail time which we could have used for education.?

If our only answer to idiocy is punishment and jail, we will eventually end up like the US where an explosion in inmate numbers in recent years means that although the US makes up 5% of the total global population, it now accounts for 25% of the world's prisoners. If it goes on like that, they will eventually end up locking up themselves.

Would it be any better for aviation if the fool would come from a big city a bit further away from your parents' house?

Google for A S E suppression filters or read this thread. It has been answered a few times before. Your question reflects typical lack of knowledge, lack of respect and disregard of netiquette. Would you lock yourself up now for a while, please? :}

Hi. I wondered if I might ask a question. I've come across a user on YouTube who is filming air traffic at night. She believes that they are in fact "morphing fake planes" piloted by extraterrestrials. It is clearly obvious in her videos that they are actually common aircraft and it has been shown that she lives very close to several airports, as she once posted her full name and address and invited people to come and see the "UFO's" for themselves.

In her latest video you can clearly hear her tell her children to "light up" what is obviously a plane with lasers. At one point you can actually hear the engine and she states that it is actually "fake noise". People pointed out that it is illegal to point lasers at aircraft and she promptly deleted the video, but not before I and a few others managed to download it. Should we report her and attach a copy of the video? You don't actually see the lasers, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

Oh, in addition to this she has also flashed aircraft with high intensity lights.

Rokami93. The laser that you refer to in the night club would have been tested and cleared for such use. Its NOHD (Nominal Ocular Hazard Distance) would have been calculated and passed as safe for such use. The lasers we are being targetted with are far more powerful. When the laser reflected around your canopy were you travelling from A to B or remaining in the area to carry out your lawful vocation? You see, if we get called to any area due to laser activity against aircraft at our local airport the 'offence' has already been committed and what we are doing is our job in apprehending the offenders. The aircraft at our local airport are targetted at a critical stages of flight (final approach). Are the the crew and passengers not entitled to the protection of the law when such a dangerous act is carried out against them? If a person on the ground hinders a police officer in the course of his duty do you not consider it appropriate for them to be arrested and subjected to due process? We have a legal right to be where we are doing what we do, the perpetrators of laser illuminations are breaking the law! Its not as if they haven't been given warning of the danger that laser illumination poses or warned that it is a criminal offence. They have, with full knowledge of the facts, decided to stick 2 fingers up and defy the law and should be dealt with as any other person is when challenging the law. Maybe you have only experienced laser illumination on one occassion but the industry faced with it on a daily basis and individuals subjected to it weekly. From your comment on my analogy of the fireman and the burning building do I take it that you do not consider the passengers of an aircraft and the crew to be in danger. One day, one of these idiots is going to cause a catostrophic accident resulting in the loss of life! Maybe we should refrain from sending Armed Response Police to incidents involving firearms as long as the person who has committed an offence isn't doing it any more? Offenders who end up in jail for this offence will (typically) have a criminal record already, have denied the offence when challenged and shown little or no remorse for their actions, they basically don't give a sh1t! You sound like a social worker or idealist. Ask any Police pilot if he would prefer to end the year with 100 successful arrests for laser illumination or no arrests because no one has carried out the act, I know that I would vote for the latter, as would all those in my unit.

rokami93,

Should this thug be located elsewhere it may be better for the aviation world as he is currently under the approach for Manchester - or at least he would be were he not residing as a guest of Her Majesty :ok::ok:

However, that was not really my point. My parents are both elderly and I do not relish the idea of such a person living nearby. You will no doubt understand this when you are a little more mature.

ChristiaanJ

fine post!

Nic

Ok, here is a slightly strange one. I don't believe that it is a l@ser, but this has happened to me three times in the last week or so.

But on descent into Newcastle, we have been caught by a couple of quite bright torch beams, which managed to catch us at around 12000 feet. The lights themselves are not like l@sers, and are actually looking like searchlights. They are not green.

However, they do trace us as we are flying into Newcastle - today the light was being shone into the flightdeck for a good couple of minutes. However, we have reported these incidents a couple of times to ATC. It's very strange though... I don't know who they are or what they are playing at - but in my mind, it's not like the previous l@ser attacks I have encountered.

WOMAN IN Murrysville Pa shining lasers at pilots as they land
 

I need your help people. There is a woman in Murrysville Pa who is posting videos of herself attacking landing airplanes with lasers and high intensity lamps(18 million lumens). She has posted videos of herself doing this and I happened upon it and it has just gotten me extremely angry. She believes these lights in teh sky are UFOs when in fact they are small planes or jetplanes which are trying to land in one of the 7 airports in her area. The woman is insane and she needs to be stopped ASAP.

I come to you to ask for your advice. HOW DO I GO ABOUT REPORTING HER? I need expert help before this woman gets people killed. Her name is ALison Kruse and she is all over Youtube bragging about how she zaps the aliens with laser and high intensity lamps.

below I attached the link of excerps of her very own video. The video was posted by anotehr youtuber and it basically shows this woman doing the unthinkable along with her daughter. Her very own words betray her. In other videos she has herself shining the high intensity lamps at the airplanes.

YouTube - UFO- MORESEEINGUFOSPA (ALISON) BUSTED POINTING A LASER AT PLANES IN HER AREA:


ALl I ask is for your help.
THANK YOU.

Watched the video, saw the plane, heard the instructions but didn't see a single laser in use. Another UFO hoax methinks! The video clearly calls for it to be sent to the FAA. Why? If the maker has the video and have had it long enough to edit it with subtitles there would be no need to get others to submit it, unless they were attempting to coerce people into swamping the FAA system with it!

Ladies and gentlemen, there is a lady on Youtube who is activily attacking our pilots with all kinds of lasers. She has video taped herself and she has no intensions of stopping. Please join me in putting an end to her crazy activity by reporting her to the proper authorities.

here is the link. You will be amazed.

YouTube - UFO- Alison Kruse(MoreSeeingUFOsPA)"LASER ATTACK" compilation.

The originals are all over Youtube. As you can see this is a compilation. This individual has been activily shining airplanes in her area for about a year and she films herself to boot. Recently it has been discovered where she lives and now the reports are being files. We need teh aviation community to rally around this one case. This arrogant woman tags planes as they are on appraoch to one of the 5 airports near her. She does this under the pretense that there is a UFO invasion of the woods by her house. THIS WOMAN IS A DANGER TO THE PILOTS OF THE AREA AND HAS TO BE STOPPED.

Below is an orginal video unaltered.
YouTube - Laser - Triangle UFO Transformer 9-24-09 Seen by Many by Pittsburgh.mp4

I want to also say that this woman now knows that we are reporting her and as a result she has pulled all her videos regarding lasers but not before we downloaded them and reported her. She now engages in truth suppression and is activily flagging the videos as soon as we post them. It is too late for her regarding the FAA but her case should make national news. She is an arrogant woman who believes she is doing nothing wrong. MY GOD!

Green LASER
 

The common green DPSS diode laser is emitting @ 532 nm; near the peak frequency of the Human eye. Fortunately most juveniles can't afford the more powerful devices, and the <5mw pointers, other than being a temporary distraction will produce no permanent damage to the eye. As far as your night vision where flying is concerned, it's going out the window, and can produce temporary blindness. Inside the 5mi. airport boundary on short final @ 130 kts or so, things happen very fast and if you get nailed coming out of the cloud bases on a 200 & a 1/2 inst approach you are going to have a difficult time at touchdown or executing a miss. The autopilot set for a miss is the safest way after getting hit.

A second crewmember helps, a luxury most single engine light AC don't have. I think I would be more concerned in today's atmosphere of terrorism that something else may be following the beam. ...Such as a rifle projectile! Some folks have been removing the freq. conversion crystal from these cheap green lasers and they then emit a 808 NM beam in the IR and can fry your eye quickly as the power level is MUCH higher when unconverted and unfiltered and at the most dangerous frequency range to the Human eye.

I suffered a Laser burn on the retina from scattering of an Excimer (Exciplex) UV Laser during a legitimate medical lab ablation experiment back in the 1970's and the small burn spot is still there! It was a light leak (defect) in my laser goggles.

Improperly aimed and controlled, this high power UV laser could burn a hole through your eye and the back of your head!

I once watched an IR 10.6 micron flowing gas CW (continuous wave) Co2 laser being fired for the 1st time at a lab in So. Cal at Union Carbide's KORAD Division in the mid 60's. It burned through the MANY multiple layers of refractory firebrick backstop, the back cement brick wall of the building, and completely through a cars body and transmission in the parking lot to scatter and dissipate in an empty field behind the building. It only was rated at 10kw, small by today's standards. Fortunately, not many can afford that kind of Laser horsepower, but it's out there!

Some Jihadist Flash Gordon moron will no doubt try to cut an aircraft in two at some point if they can get the equipment together. Actually you can build a very powerful cutting laser for a couple hundred bucks and some junk off the scrap pile.

P.S. I'm still able to get a 1st class medical though and 16500 turbine hours later, still have no problem passing the eye exam.

Check out these guys. Red, Blue, Green Laser Pointer and Torch Flashlight - Wicked Lasers Perpetrators of Mayhem.

Bright Shining Woman (must be her Native American Apache name)
 

A woman in possession of a room temperature IQ.
A candidate for retroactive abortion.

Quick! ...Somebody! ....Put more chlorine in the gene pool!

HID
 

What you're seeing is most likely an HID flashlight. HID is for High Intensity Discharge, and they put out massive amounts of Luminous flux (light) for substantial distances. It's a metal vapor high pressure inert gas arc lamp (NO filament) in a flashlight running on a Li Ion battery pack. Commonly referred to as "tactical flashlights" and used by SpecOps types, and the cops.

I bought a cheapie ($150) on eBay and at 24 watts/1400 lumens, 4300k (bright sunlight) and quick rechargeable to boot, it will light up a road sign like noon in the Sahara over a 1/2 mile away. You can get some that are super bright, kinda like your own portable neutron star if you can handle the price. It's great for that midnight walkaround preflight on an AC with a tail 30+ feet in the air, cavernous engine intakes,(to make sure no Hobo squatter has moved in to take up residence), or dark and funky wheel wells, tires & brakes. Beats the hell out of my battery inhaling halogen light.

"I love the smell of Hydraulic fluid and Jet-A in the morning" ...It smells like ...high flight.

I wonder if they make a pilot cologne?

P.S. I have nothing against Hobo's, I guess to be politically correct, I should say "Residentialy Challenged".

Re: Laser(?) at NCL
 

Assymmetric Drift,

I think I have seen the same myself. I don't think it is a laser, but I believe it is part of a Christmas decoration (no, really) on Bishop Auckland (I think) Town Hall. It appears to be a bright white focussed light beam that revolves and pitches up and down. It was certainly there a couple of years ago.

Having said that, I have been illuminated by a laser while on finals to NCL 07 green laser from the right. We reported it, but I heard no more.

TH :cool:

Unfortunately, it isn't even necessary to build one yourself any more. The Chinese ZM-87 is a compact laser weapon designed specifically to blind people at distances of up to two miles. Rumor has it that this was the weapon used against the pilot and passenger of a surveillance helicopter in the Strait of Juan de Fuca in 1997. The pilot was permanently grounded due to eye damage, and his passenger suffered laser burns as well. Supposedly this weapon is no longer manufactured. You can find a few photos on the Web.

Talkinghorse,

Yeah, we reported it to ATC - but there appears to be one on the left hand side of the aircraft too, as well as Bishop Auckland. However, it was a little bit distracting, and neither of us could work out if it was just a decoration or following us around the sky.

07? That's a new one to me - I've been caught several times on 25 from the South Shields area! I'll have an ask to someone I know in the tower and see what the status is on the lasers at the moment. Glad to know though that I'm not the only one who hasn't heard a thing about reported l@ser attacks since reporting them. Hopefully they've caught the perpetrators now - I haven't heard of many recently.

Cheers!, AD

What is bizarre is that in New Zealand a f@cktard with the IQ of a dead jellyfish was caught and arrested for shining a laser into the cockpits of aircraft about to land at Wellington airport. He was doing this when the aircraft were approx. only hundreds of metres from landing.

He ended up before a judge who moderately threw the book at him; no it did not entail jail time but was sending a strong message. Sadly this dickwads lawyer appealed and a new judge felt that the sentence was doing some harm to this poor misguided individual - after all its not as if anything happened or he shot the aircraft or anything did he - and reduced it to a very minor fine.

The judges need regular competency tests like pilots.

Flying into TFS last week, at night, the Jet2 B757 ahead of us reported being targeted by a green laser while on base leg for the easterly R/W. Fortunately they missed us.

Our aircraft was targeted this week, the offender was tracked and caught. He was given 'a stern warning' :ugh::ugh:

A new law has been introduced in the UK, making it a specific offence to shine a laser at an aircraft, which will make it easier to get convictions.

The Press Association: Shining lights at planes an offence under new law

From the BBC News website
 

Massive 25-fold rise in people shining l@sers at planes

Cheers

Rich

There's a news item about lasers on BBC London News tonight (in the next 10 mins or so!).

iX

Post 82, September 2008:
CAA Press Release 9th April 2009:
CAA Press Release 12th Jan 2010: So -

• A serious safety risk
• A dramatic increase in reported incidents (x 25 in only two years)
  • 2007: 29
  • 2008: 206
  • 2009: 737
• A Judge says the message should go out that people who target helicopters in this idiotic and dangerous way should expect to receive custodial sentences.
• The Court of Appeal says the Judge was right.

And was does the CAA/DfT do?
Introduce a specific offence to deal with the problem:
- That gives the courts no power to impose custodial sentences!!! :D:D
- And even limits the maximum fine that can be imposed to £2500. :D:D
- Triable in the Magistrates Courts only - not by Judges in the Crown Court.:D:D


*"Offenders may now be charged with ‘shining a light at an aircraft in flight so as to dazzle the pilot’, which it is expected will increase the conviction rate."*
"Increase the conviction rate"? :confused:
How many (if any) laser louts prosecuted under the old law (Endangering) have not been convicted? As far as I know: None!

The courts used to impose fines when lasers attacks were relatively rare.
When they became much more prevalent and a serious problem in the past couple of years, the courts sensibly imposed more severe punishments and started sending people to prison.
This new offence takes us back to fines! :rolleyes: