Comments by Cabin Crew on Firm Landings
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Even well intentioned comments can have unintended meaning
.
Long time ago when a higher percentage of pilots were from military I used to play the 'ex-navy/airforce' game on landings;
On the numbers and 'firm' == Navy, leisurely and floating in == Air Force.
After one 'firm' landing in a small turboprop (14? seats) I asked the pilot if he was ex-navy, he got a slightly odd look on his face and replied he had washed out of Navy flight training.
To his defense it was a small regional airport so probably did not have a lot of runway to play with
.
Long time ago when a higher percentage of pilots were from military I used to play the 'ex-navy/airforce' game on landings;
On the numbers and 'firm' == Navy, leisurely and floating in == Air Force.
After one 'firm' landing in a small turboprop (14? seats) I asked the pilot if he was ex-navy, he got a slightly odd look on his face and replied he had washed out of Navy flight training.
To his defense it was a small regional airport so probably did not have a lot of runway to play with
Hi there
Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).
Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"
Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.
Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.
Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?
Thanks
Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).
Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"
Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.
Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.
Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?
Thanks
Really?!? Are you twelve? A member of cabin crew comments on your landing and 2 weeks later it still hurts!
Man up FFS!
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Good cabin crew should know better. If they ask in seriousness, they‘ll get an answer.
If they just mean to be insulting and belittling, which I have the impression was the case here, shrug it off and walk away. You are the pro at the stick, what do they know.
If they just mean to be insulting and belittling, which I have the impression was the case here, shrug it off and walk away. You are the pro at the stick, what do they know.
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Hi there
Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).
Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"
Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.
Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.
Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?
Thanks
Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).
Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"
Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.
Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.
Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?
Thanks
Best Cabin Announcement I ever heard was after a first trip FO REALLY hurled it on at JNB. Some lockers burst open, jackets and small stuff fell out and there was deathly quiet from a very unimpressed set of SLF.
Purser comes on the speakers, with what starts as the standard arrival message, but reads “Ladies and gentlemen, you may have noticed we have just arrived at JNB, will the SURVIVORS please remain seated ..........etc etc”.
Just the right thing to say, and the whole cabin burst out laughing. Took all the steam out of the whole thing. Would like to have seen the faces on the flight deck though as they heard the announcement.
Purser comes on the speakers, with what starts as the standard arrival message, but reads “Ladies and gentlemen, you may have noticed we have just arrived at JNB, will the SURVIVORS please remain seated ..........etc etc”.
Just the right thing to say, and the whole cabin burst out laughing. Took all the steam out of the whole thing. Would like to have seen the faces on the flight deck though as they heard the announcement.
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Jonty No sir, I'm not 12. While I do understand your point, but life is a learning experience and many a times we learn best from what hurts us. I'm learning 
Thank you all. I have a new approach to look at such situations now.
Thank you all. I have a new approach to look at such situations now.
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Either they’re just throwing a bit of banter at you because they think you can take it, or they’re actually having a go / trying to put you down / seniority complex etc. (Certainly experienced the last one once).
For the former, great, this is the sign of good CRM at play. Either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back.
For the latter, either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back - they’ll either realise it wasn’t particularly polite of them, or they won’t and you can walk away knowing you rose above it. (Literally, if it’s a particularly bad landing!). YOU know what a safe landing is, that’s all the matters.
I would add for any CC reading that, as I’m sure you understand, perhaps it’s best not to comment on the landings of someone new. Even if it’s meant well, it clearly has lasting effects on people. It’s can be a stressful time in ones career and despite what people say it isn’t just as easy as letting the autopilot do it for you. The last thing you want is to be worried what the crew might say as well!
For the former, great, this is the sign of good CRM at play. Either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back.
For the latter, either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back - they’ll either realise it wasn’t particularly polite of them, or they won’t and you can walk away knowing you rose above it. (Literally, if it’s a particularly bad landing!). YOU know what a safe landing is, that’s all the matters.
I would add for any CC reading that, as I’m sure you understand, perhaps it’s best not to comment on the landings of someone new. Even if it’s meant well, it clearly has lasting effects on people. It’s can be a stressful time in ones career and despite what people say it isn’t just as easy as letting the autopilot do it for you. The last thing you want is to be worried what the crew might say as well!
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A PA to the passengers after a slammer along the lines of “now we have all picked our teeth up from the floor a very warm welcome to...” breaks the ice and they will have a laugh with you as they disembark at which point I let them know I’m an ex Navy man and if you can walk away from it it’s a good landing.
that said I do agree with many of the pr virus posters, have a word with yourself and come down off your pedestal everyone plants the aircraft every now and again and if you mention it first it is quickly forgotten.
that said I do agree with many of the pr virus posters, have a word with yourself and come down off your pedestal everyone plants the aircraft every now and again and if you mention it first it is quickly forgotten.
One Big Airline has the flight deck crew stand at the door as the passengers get off.
After a particularly firm landing a gentleman smartly turned out in a blue blazer and tie smiled at the captain and very diplomatically complimented him on the take-off.
Have to agree with previous comments along the lines of "the hangar doors are closed" i.e. forget about it. It happens to the best of us.
The best response seems to take a light hearted approach to it and make a joke about it.
After a particularly firm landing a gentleman smartly turned out in a blue blazer and tie smiled at the captain and very diplomatically complimented him on the take-off.
Have to agree with previous comments along the lines of "the hangar doors are closed" i.e. forget about it. It happens to the best of us.
The best response seems to take a light hearted approach to it and make a joke about it.
Last edited by Zeus; 25th Apr 2019 at 19:09. Reason: added text
SLF here CaptainGrizzly - on a fundamental level any landing that doesn't result in myself or anyone else expiring or spending too much time in hospital is just fine by me. Everything else can be sorted out in one or all of the laundromat, tailors and bar.
Though I'll probably have a return ticket, so it'd be nice if the plane wasn't too badly bent.
Though I'll probably have a return ticket, so it'd be nice if the plane wasn't too badly bent.
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The smoothest PA was from a colleague following a very firm arrival:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, even the most unobservant of you will have noticed that we have now arrived at Kennedy airport...."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, even the most unobservant of you will have noticed that we have now arrived at Kennedy airport...."
Overheard on the pa after one of mine, always listened after an embarrassing arrival.
the aircraft seems to have stopped flying earlier than expected but the captain informed us the taxi to stand should be smoother
always found if the cabin crew felt comfortable enough to take the mick you were having a good day out
the aircraft seems to have stopped flying earlier than expected but the captain informed us the taxi to stand should be smoother
always found if the cabin crew felt comfortable enough to take the mick you were having a good day out
Your biggest mistake is thinking you’ve done something wrong. A safe landing is not judged on the firmness of the touchdown.
Take the opportunity to educate the cabin crew. Most of them have little aviation knowledge. Explain to them that a landing within the touchdown zone is the desired result, whether it is firm or not, and it’s better to land firmly in the touchdown zone rather than float and chew up half the runway to pull off a greaser, especially in wet conditions or on a short runway.
If you smile and laugh it off you just perpetuate the myth that positive touchdown = bad landing.
Take the opportunity to educate the cabin crew. Most of them have little aviation knowledge. Explain to them that a landing within the touchdown zone is the desired result, whether it is firm or not, and it’s better to land firmly in the touchdown zone rather than float and chew up half the runway to pull off a greaser, especially in wet conditions or on a short runway.
If you smile and laugh it off you just perpetuate the myth that positive touchdown = bad landing.
You could always live the PA and say (as if in conversation with your FO); "Now that's how we'd have done it if we were deliberately doing it very badly indeed, okay?."
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What I ask my FO's all the time after a rough landing: what is the difference between a GOOD landing and a PERFECT landing?
A GOOD landing is a landing from which you can walk away from.
A PERFECT landing is a landing after which the aircraft still flies.
A GOOD landing is a landing from which you can walk away from.
A PERFECT landing is a landing after which the aircraft still flies.
