How do you brief?
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How do you brief?
Hello guys,
I am a junior first officer flying around the Asian region and I just keep noticing the way we brief is very 'boring' and basically just keep nodding and saying 'checked' every 5-8 seconds seems to do the trick and many times you just start daydreaming because the person sitting next to you is just going over things which are not relevant to the flight. For example, one guy inserts the F-PLN in the computer while the other guy checks, however, he briefs the full SID waypoints and speed restrictions despite cross-checking them together silently against a chart just a few minutes ago. So I started asking my colleagues in the other parts of the world and turns out most of them are the same us with the exception of a few leading airlines which always seem to be ahead in re-thinking and re-designing the way to a common sense way. Anyone experienced that and how would you deal with it? Furthermore, this is an excellent article by Royal Aeronautical Society which talks about this specific problem
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/briefing-better/
Happy Reading
I am a junior first officer flying around the Asian region and I just keep noticing the way we brief is very 'boring' and basically just keep nodding and saying 'checked' every 5-8 seconds seems to do the trick and many times you just start daydreaming because the person sitting next to you is just going over things which are not relevant to the flight. For example, one guy inserts the F-PLN in the computer while the other guy checks, however, he briefs the full SID waypoints and speed restrictions despite cross-checking them together silently against a chart just a few minutes ago. So I started asking my colleagues in the other parts of the world and turns out most of them are the same us with the exception of a few leading airlines which always seem to be ahead in re-thinking and re-designing the way to a common sense way. Anyone experienced that and how would you deal with it? Furthermore, this is an excellent article by Royal Aeronautical Society which talks about this specific problem
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/briefing-better/
Happy Reading
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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We brief and do the FMS check at the same time - to avoid task duplication, which does, as you say, lead to people 'switching a bit off'....
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Very interesting topic. Especially when flying multiple sectors a day, a standardised briefing tends to become routine and who can really say they're still listening 100% after the second one.
I have heard that some airlines have moved towards just briefing the specials for a departure or approach, to only brief things that need attention or that are different.
Where I fly we each check our FMS set up independantly. Once ready for briefing we keep it short such as "route acc. to FMS, which is checked" . Dont have to read all the points and altutude/speed restrictions. Thats where people will start to tune out.
I have heard that some airlines have moved towards just briefing the specials for a departure or approach, to only brief things that need attention or that are different.
Where I fly we each check our FMS set up independantly. Once ready for briefing we keep it short such as "route acc. to FMS, which is checked" . Dont have to read all the points and altutude/speed restrictions. Thats where people will start to tune out.
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In the company I work for we only do like about 20ish different destinations. Most of them are daily flights. By the book, when the PF is done with the FMS, the PM will check it and then the PF will brief. Of course it includes a long and boring briefing of the SID/STAR and approach plates. In daily operation, I almost never brief as we are very familiar with the airports we fly to. I will ask my colleague if he has any doubts, and unless he is a new guy and wants a briefing, that's the end of it: '' Standard briefing''. Period. I rather keep my energy and focus on flying the plane instead of wasting time talking unnecessarily. Maybe a quick mention about threats or special procedures if applicable. If weather is marginal, I will quickly recall the items for the go around and what's my intention in case of missed approach. Most of the time, I will review in my head the emergency procedure in case of rejected take off and the go around items during the approach '' just in case''.
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Very short, very brief. I remember being bored to death with morons attempting to give me every possible thing they could think of in every in a non-brief brief they could regurgitate. If you can’t get done in an a minute or so you are probably dealing with very special airport or, more likely, “special” people. After about a minute or so the opening items will have been forgotten and if the dross continues, the rest will be ignored. And let’s face it, when you are somewhere new or very different, most of the non-standard items willl have been discussed beforehand during the set-up. If you want to see a classic, totally imbecilic and unsafe brief, try
It takes nearly five minutes before you realise the clown in the left hand seat is NOT the PF. However, this is a perfect illustration of “how not to do it.”
PM
PM
Last edited by Piltdown Man; 24th May 2018 at 13:52. Reason: Wrong seat.
What is the purpose of any briefing?
One reasonable definition is that a briefing serves to:
verify that the cockpit set-up is as required;
highlight specific threats and how to manage them;
share ones mental model in order to align expectations;
rehearse any specific discrete procedures, e.g. engine-out SID;
agree on possible plans of action in the event of a ‘non-normal’; and
set an open tone that will encourage either crew member to speak up and question any deviation from SOPs or the plan outlined during the briefing.
A good way to achieve the above is to keep briefings short and relevant. The ‘briefer’ should facilitate active engagement of the other party by asking open questions that require the ‘receiver’ to think for themselves.
A good example in the video clip is when the Captain states, “there are no NOTAMS to affect our taxi route” (or words to that effect). A better style would be to ask the First Officer, “which NOTAMS did you see that might affect our taxi route?”
One reasonable definition is that a briefing serves to:
verify that the cockpit set-up is as required;
highlight specific threats and how to manage them;
share ones mental model in order to align expectations;
rehearse any specific discrete procedures, e.g. engine-out SID;
agree on possible plans of action in the event of a ‘non-normal’; and
set an open tone that will encourage either crew member to speak up and question any deviation from SOPs or the plan outlined during the briefing.
A good way to achieve the above is to keep briefings short and relevant. The ‘briefer’ should facilitate active engagement of the other party by asking open questions that require the ‘receiver’ to think for themselves.
A good example in the video clip is when the Captain states, “there are no NOTAMS to affect our taxi route” (or words to that effect). A better style would be to ask the First Officer, “which NOTAMS did you see that might affect our taxi route?”
Wow, not quite how I remember things.......
Ok, left hand seat departure, full length 33. Standard Cowly departure stop altitude 6000. Emergency brief standard - any questions
Ok, standard 15 arrival, flap 25 landing, idle reverse, minima 600 Qnh. Standard go around stop altitude 3000...any questions.
I may exaggerate a little but you get the drift.
Ok, left hand seat departure, full length 33. Standard Cowly departure stop altitude 6000. Emergency brief standard - any questions
Ok, standard 15 arrival, flap 25 landing, idle reverse, minima 600 Qnh. Standard go around stop altitude 3000...any questions.
I may exaggerate a little but you get the drift.
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Long routine briefings on familiar departures/arrivals fit the definition of too many university lectures: "a system whereby the notes of the lecturer pass into the notebook of the student without passing through the minds of either".
In some airlines you could cause great alarm by answering the routine "Any questions?" with "Yes!"
For familiar airports it's much better to ask a question or try, "Let's run through together our actions in the event of an engine failure on take off."
Very important in a routine operation is "What's different to-day?"
(I've had people run through a boring let-down brief at a Canary island on a gin-clear day without mentioning the strong possibility of wind-shear).
In some airlines you could cause great alarm by answering the routine "Any questions?" with "Yes!"
For familiar airports it's much better to ask a question or try, "Let's run through together our actions in the event of an engine failure on take off."
Very important in a routine operation is "What's different to-day?"
(I've had people run through a boring let-down brief at a Canary island on a gin-clear day without mentioning the strong possibility of wind-shear).
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It takes nearly five minutes before you realise the clown in the left hand seat is NOT the PF. However, this is a perfect illustration of “how not to do it.”
But apart from that I´d say I agree with your post. Used to fly with a chap who babbled 5 minutes in continuous monotone voice before t/o...bored me to death.
Last edited by His dudeness; 23rd Jun 2018 at 09:06.
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Very interesting topic. Especially when flying multiple sectors a day, a standardised briefing tends to become routine and who can really say they're still listening 100% after the second one
I watched and listened carefully from the jump seat as the captain started his spiel. First he turned his head to look outside his own side window at the desert below and in a bored expressionless voice started with "In event of a rapid depressurisation, we will don our oxygen masks and ensure communication. You will call ATC - I will do this - you will do that etc etc " as he went through the entire planned drill which took about 45 seconds of him talking while still staring into space outside his side window.
As soon as the captain started this robotic talking the first officer looked at me and winked then proceeded to make faces and waving his hands around and generally behaving like a clown while giving the finger to the captain's back. . With exquisite timing borne of long experience until with a few seconds to spare before the captain was due to turn around and say "Any questions" the first officer was back in position looking straight ahead in studied monitoring of his part of the flight deck. "No questions, Captain" he said. . The captain with his career long seniority within the airline union didn't have a clue at the charade that went on during his SOP briefing . I treasured that scene for its hilarity. Unprofessional? Of course it was. But brought on by the hours of soulless flying over that part of the Australian landscape only the dingoes, kangaroos and red-back spiders would love..
Last edited by Tee Emm; 23rd Jun 2018 at 15:53.
I briefly worked for one operator with a hard policy that the ridiculously long brief had to be done for every leg of the 3 leg triangle we flew everyday. We started timing the brief to see who could say all the words in the shortest time. I established the record time by breath stacking and then doing the whole brief in one breath talking as fast as I could.
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The key is in the BRIEF part of briefing! Otherwise it would be called a longing...
Here at EK we have supposedly moved to a more interactive style whereby the PF asks questions of the PM - as Eckhard alludes to in post 7. And even with that style you only need to touch on the expected differences, if any, from the SOPs.
A vital, to my mind anyway, item to brief though even if we are happy with 'standard XXX' for the arrival is to brief the GA procedure; this is what gets screwed up the most!
Here at EK we have supposedly moved to a more interactive style whereby the PF asks questions of the PM - as Eckhard alludes to in post 7. And even with that style you only need to touch on the expected differences, if any, from the SOPs.
A vital, to my mind anyway, item to brief though even if we are happy with 'standard XXX' for the arrival is to brief the GA procedure; this is what gets screwed up the most!
Yes, especially “how” you are going to do it, i.e. which buttons, levers and in which order including expected FMAs, etc.
It seems that there must be a difference between briefing styles, depending on the crewing and operational situation:
Two pilots who know each other well and are flying the same aircraft on a limited number of routes, or multi-sector days versus
two, three or four pilots who are strangers, flying three times a month and who now find themselves in a new sub-variant on a new route.
There are many combinations between these extremes.
Let’s not forget the single pilot. Do they brief themselves?
It seems that there must be a difference between briefing styles, depending on the crewing and operational situation:
Two pilots who know each other well and are flying the same aircraft on a limited number of routes, or multi-sector days versus
two, three or four pilots who are strangers, flying three times a month and who now find themselves in a new sub-variant on a new route.
There are many combinations between these extremes.
Let’s not forget the single pilot. Do they brief themselves?
