Overrun Accidents
Thread Starter
Overrun Accidents
Request for Accident Reports involving Runway Excursion - EASA area.
The recently published EASA Safety Review 2017 identifies runway excursion as the outcome of 13% of fatal accidents and 30% of non fatal accidents during the period 2007 - 2016.
A search for accident reports has failed to find any with significant information as to the cause or contributing factors.
If there any Ppruners who are able to identify accident reports relating to the EASA operational area, associated with runway excursion, side or overrun end, will they please publish (or PM) details, links, etc, to aid understanding of the EASA Safety data.
The recently published EASA Safety Review 2017 identifies runway excursion as the outcome of 13% of fatal accidents and 30% of non fatal accidents during the period 2007 - 2016.
A search for accident reports has failed to find any with significant information as to the cause or contributing factors.
If there any Ppruners who are able to identify accident reports relating to the EASA operational area, associated with runway excursion, side or overrun end, will they please publish (or PM) details, links, etc, to aid understanding of the EASA Safety data.
Try JEDEC database?
ASTB published a comprehensive list of accidents worldwide, but no links to reports.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/27370/ar2008018_1.pdf
ASTB published a comprehensive list of accidents worldwide, but no links to reports.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/27370/ar2008018_1.pdf
Thread Starter
Thanks, but few details in the docs.
JACDEC database references a Bulgarian report but translation required, and there is a Danish report of a -8, gear collapse in strong crosswind.
This is a puzzling situation, EASA promote evidenced based safety, evidence based regulation, evidence based training, - the current buzz’s, but where is the evidence for runway excursions in EASA land.
Overruns are a major safety issue world wide, but there is little data on the problem or nature of problems in Europe.
The EASA Review connects Runway Excursion with the majority of Operational factors and all categories of Human Factors, but which are the important issues?
JACDEC database references a Bulgarian report but translation required, and there is a Danish report of a -8, gear collapse in strong crosswind.
This is a puzzling situation, EASA promote evidenced based safety, evidence based regulation, evidence based training, - the current buzz’s, but where is the evidence for runway excursions in EASA land.
Overruns are a major safety issue world wide, but there is little data on the problem or nature of problems in Europe.
The EASA Review connects Runway Excursion with the majority of Operational factors and all categories of Human Factors, but which are the important issues?
Thread Starter
Thanks SM, not quite what I was looking for, but it has triggered alternative thoughts.
The EASA Safety Review focuses on Europe but without evidence of European problems. I have been looking for this - accidents / incidents reports, but if we assumed that the characteristics and contributions in overrun accidents are similar worldwide then there are several review documents, FSF, IATA, and accident reports to consider.
Future safety activities are usually based on past evidence - managing yesterday's risks, but although the same hazards have to be managed, the outcome will be unknown because there will be no absolute value of risk (likelihood x severity).
Furthermore, it might not be sensible to assume worldwide commonality for future activities, particularly as the European approach to risk managing the threat of overrun could differ from other world areas, e.g. requirements for contaminated runway performance - AMC CS 25.1591 is unique to EASA.
The EASA Safety Review focuses on Europe but without evidence of European problems. I have been looking for this - accidents / incidents reports, but if we assumed that the characteristics and contributions in overrun accidents are similar worldwide then there are several review documents, FSF, IATA, and accident reports to consider.
Future safety activities are usually based on past evidence - managing yesterday's risks, but although the same hazards have to be managed, the outcome will be unknown because there will be no absolute value of risk (likelihood x severity).
Furthermore, it might not be sensible to assume worldwide commonality for future activities, particularly as the European approach to risk managing the threat of overrun could differ from other world areas, e.g. requirements for contaminated runway performance - AMC CS 25.1591 is unique to EASA.
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Is this what you are looking for?
3-Jan-08 Atlas Blue 737-400 Deauville, France Landing BEA Rapport cn-x080103
15-Jan-08 Air France A300-600 Paris, France Landing BEA tf-w080115
22-Apr-08 Carpatair BAe 146 Bucharest, Romania Landing No report found
25-May-08 Kalitta Air 747-200 Brussels,BelgiumTakeoff Ref. AAIU-2008-13
9-Feb-09 Air Mediterranee A321 Paris,France Landing BEA Rapport on F-GYAJ (unnumbered)
13-Feb-09 BA CityFlyer RJ-100 London,United Kingdom Landing AAIB Bulletin: 2/2010 G-BXAR EW/C2009/02/03
1-Nov-11 LOT Polish Airlines 767 Warsaw, Poland Landing SCAAI-1400/2011-EPWA-SP-LPC (rev.1)
16-Oct-12 Brit Air CRJ 700 Lorient, France Landing http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2012/f-ze...e121016.en.pdf
29-Mar-13 Air Méditerranée A321 Lyon, France Landing BEA Ref sx-s130329en.pdf
24-May-13 Air Via A320 Varna, Bulgaria Landing No report found
08-Jun-13 Wizz Air A320 Rome, Italy Landing No formal ANSV report found
29-April-14 Air Contractors (Ireland) Ltd 737-400 East Midlands UK Landing AAIB Bulletin: 4/2015 EI-STD EW/C2014/04/03
5-Aug-16 ASL Airlines Hungary 737-400 Bergamo, Italy Landing No report yet published
3-Jan-08 Atlas Blue 737-400 Deauville, France Landing BEA Rapport cn-x080103
15-Jan-08 Air France A300-600 Paris, France Landing BEA tf-w080115
22-Apr-08 Carpatair BAe 146 Bucharest, Romania Landing No report found
25-May-08 Kalitta Air 747-200 Brussels,BelgiumTakeoff Ref. AAIU-2008-13
9-Feb-09 Air Mediterranee A321 Paris,France Landing BEA Rapport on F-GYAJ (unnumbered)
13-Feb-09 BA CityFlyer RJ-100 London,United Kingdom Landing AAIB Bulletin: 2/2010 G-BXAR EW/C2009/02/03
1-Nov-11 LOT Polish Airlines 767 Warsaw, Poland Landing SCAAI-1400/2011-EPWA-SP-LPC (rev.1)
16-Oct-12 Brit Air CRJ 700 Lorient, France Landing http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2012/f-ze...e121016.en.pdf
29-Mar-13 Air Méditerranée A321 Lyon, France Landing BEA Ref sx-s130329en.pdf
24-May-13 Air Via A320 Varna, Bulgaria Landing No report found
08-Jun-13 Wizz Air A320 Rome, Italy Landing No formal ANSV report found
29-April-14 Air Contractors (Ireland) Ltd 737-400 East Midlands UK Landing AAIB Bulletin: 4/2015 EI-STD EW/C2014/04/03
5-Aug-16 ASL Airlines Hungary 737-400 Bergamo, Italy Landing No report yet published
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Try Avherald
Database has a crude search which for excursion turns up quite a few events but the listing is worldwide so needs to be reviewed to locate those in EASAland.
Reports generally have links to the investigation report and translated extracts if not in English so quite useful.
Hope this helps...
Database has a crude search which for excursion turns up quite a few events but the listing is worldwide so needs to be reviewed to locate those in EASAland.
Reports generally have links to the investigation report and translated extracts if not in English so quite useful.
Hope this helps...
Last edited by kirkbymoorside; 24th Aug 2017 at 09:09. Reason: typo
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There are about nine pages of results in total and even allowing for initial and duplicate reports likely to be a fair number of events in Europe.
Thread Starter
Owain, your post was a help, please reinstate (or PM) so that I might sort through the refs.
So called irrelevant reports provide valuable information; how many of these event might be reported erroneously as an overrun, recorded in some database or other, then statistically applied to generate safety action.
An anecdotal view of European operations suggests that the rate of overruns (and excursions) is less than other world regions, but where's the data. Are there common factors in the few adverse events with the worldly views given in the big summary reports, if so then the European policy to follow world initiatives is justified.
If not, then what specific activities have provided a defence for our industry, what have operators been doing to achieve this success. With this knowledge Europe should continue their best practices, and only add those worldly threats judged relevant to European operations - operators / overseas locations, but not unnecessarily suffer imposed ‘worldwide’ safety activities.
A recent European conference on GAs challenged some of the ‘established’ ideas about stabilised approach. Emergent views of the US FSF sponsored ‘improve the rate of GAs’ suggested other ways of addressing the issue of unstable approaches; the alternative of improving the safety of all landings, focus on flying the approach, vice knowing when to GA, might be more profitable and have benefits elsewhere.
Thanks to other posters for their efforts, we need to identify ‘the evidence’.
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
Dave, the EASA Safety Review #1, reflects such a search. The introduction to the Review lists the sources of information, and according to these there were no overrun accidents in Europe 2016.
The relevant accident categorisation is the all-encompassing ‘Runway Excursion’ with corresponding extensive range of safety issues, which hinders the identification of specifics for overruns.
The Review presents a rosy view of European safety, yet appropriately identifies runway excursion as the key risk, but there is no detail or explanation as to how this was achieved; and that appears to start with what's in their database and how did it get there.
So called irrelevant reports provide valuable information; how many of these event might be reported erroneously as an overrun, recorded in some database or other, then statistically applied to generate safety action.
An anecdotal view of European operations suggests that the rate of overruns (and excursions) is less than other world regions, but where's the data. Are there common factors in the few adverse events with the worldly views given in the big summary reports, if so then the European policy to follow world initiatives is justified.
If not, then what specific activities have provided a defence for our industry, what have operators been doing to achieve this success. With this knowledge Europe should continue their best practices, and only add those worldly threats judged relevant to European operations - operators / overseas locations, but not unnecessarily suffer imposed ‘worldwide’ safety activities.
A recent European conference on GAs challenged some of the ‘established’ ideas about stabilised approach. Emergent views of the US FSF sponsored ‘improve the rate of GAs’ suggested other ways of addressing the issue of unstable approaches; the alternative of improving the safety of all landings, focus on flying the approach, vice knowing when to GA, might be more profitable and have benefits elsewhere.
Thanks to other posters for their efforts, we need to identify ‘the evidence’.
“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
Dave, the EASA Safety Review #1, reflects such a search. The introduction to the Review lists the sources of information, and according to these there were no overrun accidents in Europe 2016.
The relevant accident categorisation is the all-encompassing ‘Runway Excursion’ with corresponding extensive range of safety issues, which hinders the identification of specifics for overruns.
The Review presents a rosy view of European safety, yet appropriately identifies runway excursion as the key risk, but there is no detail or explanation as to how this was achieved; and that appears to start with what's in their database and how did it get there.
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@ PEI
I can repeat the Boeing data with no problem as I have the reports stored. Sorry, the URL addresses were googled “on the fly”, and I don’t have the motivation to do it again. You should have no problem finding the reports using the date, airline and place though. Not all the reports are in English. The runway associated accidents from the Boeing data are:
3 January 2008 Atlas Blue 737-400 Deauville Landing Over-run
15 January 2008 Air France A300-600 Paris Landing lateral excursion
22 April 2008 Carpatair BAE 146 Bucharest Landing Runway turn off
25 May 2008 Kalitta Air 747-400 Brussels Take off abort after V1
9 February 2009 Air Mediterranee A321 Paris Overshot runway turn off
13 February 2009 BA City Flyer RJ 100 London Landing Nose gear collapse
1 November 2011 LOT B767 Warsaw Landing all gears retracted
18 October 2012 Brit Air CRJ 100 Lorient Landing Runway Over-run
29 March 2013 Air Mediterranee A321 Lyon Landing Runway Over-run
24 May 2013 Air Via A320 Varna Landing Runway Over-run
8 June 2013 Wizz Air A320 Rome Landing LH gear did not extend
29 April 2014 Air Contractors (Ireland) Ltd B737-400 East Midlands Landing LH gear collapsed
5 August 2016 ASL Airlines B737-400 Bergamo Landing Runway Over-run
There are of course many other accidents one could consider, but these are the only examples I could find that occurred in Europe proper.
PM me if you are interested in years outside 2007 to 2016
I can repeat the Boeing data with no problem as I have the reports stored. Sorry, the URL addresses were googled “on the fly”, and I don’t have the motivation to do it again. You should have no problem finding the reports using the date, airline and place though. Not all the reports are in English. The runway associated accidents from the Boeing data are:
3 January 2008 Atlas Blue 737-400 Deauville Landing Over-run
15 January 2008 Air France A300-600 Paris Landing lateral excursion
22 April 2008 Carpatair BAE 146 Bucharest Landing Runway turn off
25 May 2008 Kalitta Air 747-400 Brussels Take off abort after V1
9 February 2009 Air Mediterranee A321 Paris Overshot runway turn off
13 February 2009 BA City Flyer RJ 100 London Landing Nose gear collapse
1 November 2011 LOT B767 Warsaw Landing all gears retracted
18 October 2012 Brit Air CRJ 100 Lorient Landing Runway Over-run
29 March 2013 Air Mediterranee A321 Lyon Landing Runway Over-run
24 May 2013 Air Via A320 Varna Landing Runway Over-run
8 June 2013 Wizz Air A320 Rome Landing LH gear did not extend
29 April 2014 Air Contractors (Ireland) Ltd B737-400 East Midlands Landing LH gear collapsed
5 August 2016 ASL Airlines B737-400 Bergamo Landing Runway Over-run
There are of course many other accidents one could consider, but these are the only examples I could find that occurred in Europe proper.
PM me if you are interested in years outside 2007 to 2016
If you have a general interest in runway overruns (not specifically in Europe) a good source of data is the NTSB's accident database. It has the advantage that it's in the public domain, and runway overrun events are specifically coded as such enabling them to be readily extracted.
Thread Starter
Thanks Dave. I have a general interest, but as discussed above the issues appear more about how events are categorised before they are put into a database.
ICAO provides broad categorisations, but these lack detail for analysis, particularly relating to human behaviour - decision to land, etc.
A reported event may be biased by the style of investigation and that investigators struggle with investigating and reporting the issues underlying HF.
In addition with local or self reporting - operator and individual, the report is often compiled by those affected, with associated bias.
ICAO provides broad categorisations, but these lack detail for analysis, particularly relating to human behaviour - decision to land, etc.
A reported event may be biased by the style of investigation and that investigators struggle with investigating and reporting the issues underlying HF.
In addition with local or self reporting - operator and individual, the report is often compiled by those affected, with associated bias.
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Unfortunately there is no consolidated database AFAIK. The entries are sometimes too generic to be properly identified.
Had to compile a couple of examples for runway excursions on contaminated runways. It ended with specific searches on most of the Nordic countries national accident investigation branches websites.
Another approach to find such accidents and incidents is via the press - search in the renown press archives and then try to find the respective reports.
Also a possible source is to search for studies on aquaplaning, contaminated runways, stopping distance, arresting gear and engineered surfaces. Many studies feature a list of incidents and accidents.
Depending on what the particular aim of the research is this can be helpful. I found about a dozen incidents and accidents which matched my requirements.
Had to compile a couple of examples for runway excursions on contaminated runways. It ended with specific searches on most of the Nordic countries national accident investigation branches websites.
Another approach to find such accidents and incidents is via the press - search in the renown press archives and then try to find the respective reports.
Also a possible source is to search for studies on aquaplaning, contaminated runways, stopping distance, arresting gear and engineered surfaces. Many studies feature a list of incidents and accidents.
Depending on what the particular aim of the research is this can be helpful. I found about a dozen incidents and accidents which matched my requirements.
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29 April 2014 Air Contractors (Ireland) Ltd B737-400 East Midlands Landing LH gear collapsed
I haven't checked the veracity of the others cases quoted.
Thread Starter
error 401, spot on; but this lack of availability should not be the situation with the promotion of open reporting and safety analysis.
If we in this forum struggle with the availability of data, then what of the regulator, but they still publish ‘safety’ statistics. What confidence might the industry have in their conclusions; where is the justification for change, additional training, regulation, etc.
It's one thing to publish reports for public consumption - illustrating to the upper management and governing bodies the state of play, but what about the actual, practical safety activities; we have some, but based on what.
If we in this forum struggle with the availability of data, then what of the regulator, but they still publish ‘safety’ statistics. What confidence might the industry have in their conclusions; where is the justification for change, additional training, regulation, etc.
It's one thing to publish reports for public consumption - illustrating to the upper management and governing bodies the state of play, but what about the actual, practical safety activities; we have some, but based on what.
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The aircraft definitely did not leave the runway