EASA propose drug & alcohol testing of flight and cabin crew
"It's only right that our MPs, law makers, judges across the street should likewise be tested!!! "
stator vane & testpanel,
That similar statement was made to the senate panel by either the ALPA aeromedical chairman or lawyer I mentioned earlier.
The sneering reply from one senator (Fritz Hollings, IIRC) was : "I'm not going to fly a plane load of people to Chicago this afternoon...you are."
They make the rules. If YOU made the rules, you would exempt yourself too.
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Frederick Douglass
And we submitted VERY quietly here in the USA. I suppose you will too.
By the way, doctors MAYBE spent more money buying politicians than did airline pilots ? I haven't tracked down what ALPA spent here but docs did this. Note the amount spent on lobbying:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...068&cycle=2014
Well, found this. Note the amount spent lobbying vs docs. Adjust each to "All Cycles" for the rather significant differences. I'm too lazy to do that for you:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...117&cycle=2014
stator vane & testpanel,
That similar statement was made to the senate panel by either the ALPA aeromedical chairman or lawyer I mentioned earlier.
The sneering reply from one senator (Fritz Hollings, IIRC) was : "I'm not going to fly a plane load of people to Chicago this afternoon...you are."
They make the rules. If YOU made the rules, you would exempt yourself too.
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Frederick Douglass
And we submitted VERY quietly here in the USA. I suppose you will too.
By the way, doctors MAYBE spent more money buying politicians than did airline pilots ? I haven't tracked down what ALPA spent here but docs did this. Note the amount spent on lobbying:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...068&cycle=2014
Well, found this. Note the amount spent lobbying vs docs. Adjust each to "All Cycles" for the rather significant differences. I'm too lazy to do that for you:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...117&cycle=2014
Last edited by bafanguy; 10th Dec 2016 at 21:27.
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Denti
I don't think the issues faced by pilots, and imposed by lawmakers, could be encapsulated much better than this!
And no, i don't want to work with someone under the influence, luckily i never had to have that talk yet and suggest a sick call. But it might happen at some point. However, i have flown and flown with pilots so fatigued that they probably would have been better at their job with enough rest and one or two pints right before work...
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Caveat: I'm only a Class 2 medical graded pilot. However, I have had exposure and experience of many industry approaches to D&A testing. Most just operate on the basis of suspicion. If the management think you are woozy they will test you breath or urine. Some consider themselves to be ahead of the game and have a randomised approach to this.
There is a significant exception: the railway industry. Not just the operators, but maintenance, designers, supervisors, and trainers. It's broad and significant.
The test is NOT just blood alcohol at the point and the time. Before employment you have to voluntarily have a test of you urine: and they look at the protein levels associated with your generic alcohol usage pattern. Oh yes. And history of drug use going back several months.
I'm more concerned about my rail industry tests than I am about my Class 2 medical. That is very amateur by comparison. (Yes I have done a Class 1, that was years ago).
There is a significant exception: the railway industry. Not just the operators, but maintenance, designers, supervisors, and trainers. It's broad and significant.
The test is NOT just blood alcohol at the point and the time. Before employment you have to voluntarily have a test of you urine: and they look at the protein levels associated with your generic alcohol usage pattern. Oh yes. And history of drug use going back several months.
I'm more concerned about my rail industry tests than I am about my Class 2 medical. That is very amateur by comparison. (Yes I have done a Class 1, that was years ago).
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300hrWannaB
I believe there was a tram crash in Croydon last month, causing significant loss of life? Certainly at the moment, the suggestion I have heard is that the driver may have been asleep?
I have heard no suggestion that he was drunk?
Significant for those here required to hold a Class One medical??
Yes. I think so!
Significant for EASA?
Clearly of no interest whatsoever!
I believe there was a tram crash in Croydon last month, causing significant loss of life? Certainly at the moment, the suggestion I have heard is that the driver may have been asleep?
I have heard no suggestion that he was drunk?
Significant for those here required to hold a Class One medical??
Yes. I think so!
Significant for EASA?
Clearly of no interest whatsoever!
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The way I see it.
Alcohol is your problem, it can be measured, so let us test.
Fatigue, which is a greater problem today, is a company rostering problem.
Firstly, it requires that the company accept that there is a problem with rostering and fatigue.
Secondly, they accept pilot reports that fatigue exists and take steps to correct the problem, and not just talk about it in CRM refreshers.
Thirdly, as there is no way to measure fatigue except the crews word, we come back to point 2.
The FTL limits are limits which should be used only as a last resort by rostering and should not be used as routine operating procedures.
However economics rules everything, so there is very less hope for things to change.
As i see it, Fatigue is a much greater problem.
Breathalyser is here to stay. I have been in companies where it was mandatory before the first flight of the day, in a company where it was not there at all and also in a company where it is randomly carried out.
I like my drinks but I don't see BA check as an issue. As a professional it is my duty to make sure that we are legal for the flight even if it means that on some day (most days with todays rostering) I am an unsocial man.
At least, where I work, a lot of pilots are submitting fatigue reports. I myself have submitted more than 3. But the rostering continues as usual, as they are in legal limits. And they would rather handle the disruptions due to fatigue and sick reports, pulling out standbys and people on off days, rather than change the rostering.
I wish the scientist and CAAs who came out with the FTL limits, fly the rosters continuously, months on end. Maybe then there is some hope that things will change.
Alcohol is your problem, it can be measured, so let us test.
Fatigue, which is a greater problem today, is a company rostering problem.
Firstly, it requires that the company accept that there is a problem with rostering and fatigue.
Secondly, they accept pilot reports that fatigue exists and take steps to correct the problem, and not just talk about it in CRM refreshers.
Thirdly, as there is no way to measure fatigue except the crews word, we come back to point 2.
The FTL limits are limits which should be used only as a last resort by rostering and should not be used as routine operating procedures.
However economics rules everything, so there is very less hope for things to change.
As i see it, Fatigue is a much greater problem.
Breathalyser is here to stay. I have been in companies where it was mandatory before the first flight of the day, in a company where it was not there at all and also in a company where it is randomly carried out.
I like my drinks but I don't see BA check as an issue. As a professional it is my duty to make sure that we are legal for the flight even if it means that on some day (most days with todays rostering) I am an unsocial man.
At least, where I work, a lot of pilots are submitting fatigue reports. I myself have submitted more than 3. But the rostering continues as usual, as they are in legal limits. And they would rather handle the disruptions due to fatigue and sick reports, pulling out standbys and people on off days, rather than change the rostering.
I wish the scientist and CAAs who came out with the FTL limits, fly the rosters continuously, months on end. Maybe then there is some hope that things will change.
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I'm more concerned about my rail industry tests than I am about my Class 2 medical. That is very amateur by comparison. (Yes I have done a Class 1, that was years ago).
