What Aeronautical Decision Making tool does your airline use?
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What Aeronautical Decision Making tool does your airline use?
Gents,
Just being curious; at my current airline we do not use an Aeronautical Decision making tool or Mnemonics. I think this is a complete loss from a Human Factors perspective. I know Lufthansa uses FORDEC (Facts, Options, Risks/Benefits, Decision, Execution, Check) does your airline use Mnemonics or do you know what othere airlines use for complex decision making?
Cheers!
Just being curious; at my current airline we do not use an Aeronautical Decision making tool or Mnemonics. I think this is a complete loss from a Human Factors perspective. I know Lufthansa uses FORDEC (Facts, Options, Risks/Benefits, Decision, Execution, Check) does your airline use Mnemonics or do you know what othere airlines use for complex decision making?
Cheers!
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Doesn't matter!
They are designed to be an AID to the decision making process. I use DODAR, I believe my current employer teaches FORDEC... They all amount to the same thing... And this old head has enough to remember without trying to squeeze in an more silly mnemonics
They are designed to be an AID to the decision making process. I use DODAR, I believe my current employer teaches FORDEC... They all amount to the same thing... And this old head has enough to remember without trying to squeeze in an more silly mnemonics
CDF works just fine.
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In flight training we used FORDEC, not surprising, it was the LH flightschool. In my first job we used DODAR (as a hun subsidiary of a Big Airline) and when we merged with another carrier we returned to FORDEC.
Quite honestly it doesn't matter which mnemonic you use, the main thing is a structured approach to decision making that includes a feedback loop. Some carriers or trainers want you do spell it out during a simulator session, and even in real life it can help to take a step back and walk through it.
Quite honestly it doesn't matter which mnemonic you use, the main thing is a structured approach to decision making that includes a feedback loop. Some carriers or trainers want you do spell it out during a simulator session, and even in real life it can help to take a step back and walk through it.
It doesn’t matter which is used – there are many. Most are based on problem solving techniques which conclude with decision making – choice of a course of action.
Mnemonics are most valuable during training in developing decision making skills and then enhancing the skill with continual use so that the process approaches subconscious thinking.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/199876698/Critical-Thinking
https://www.scribd.com/doc/63058467/...tion-Awareness
https://www.scribd.com/doc/73271746/...tter-Decisions
Mnemonics are most valuable during training in developing decision making skills and then enhancing the skill with continual use so that the process approaches subconscious thinking.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/199876698/Critical-Thinking
https://www.scribd.com/doc/63058467/...tion-Awareness
https://www.scribd.com/doc/73271746/...tter-Decisions
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Mnemonics are most valuable during training in developing decision making skills and then enhancing the skill with continual use so that the process approaches subconscious thinking.
Instead they focus on Threat and Error Management and think that is sufficient. However I think TEM and ADM belong together since they create a better Situational Awareness. Mnemonics are merely a tool, not a goal.
I think the lack of knowledge limits my company in investigating a better approach to ADM. As a TRI I see quite a few crews making wrong decisions during complex situations and under stress. Management has recognized that and now spent 10 (!) minutes during the briefing of a simulator session on Aeronautical Decision Making and present it more or less as a gimmick. Not even giving the TRI's background knowledge. Crews therefore do not see the added value.
I think mnemonics need to be part of the training culture. Like a few of you mention, the mnemonic itself is not important but the steps that lead you to a decision are.
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I just used common sense and airmanship, when you rely on a "crutch" it can limit the thinking process.
It is not what the Met briefing contains it is what it DOESN'T is the trick.
It is not what the Met briefing contains it is what it DOESN'T is the trick.
Yep, the guy in the front left seat is the Aeronautical Decision Maker in our company. He does confer with the guy next to him too to assist.
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Threat and Error Management
Hi P216,
Perhaps the bigger issue here is that TEM is very difficult to achieve without a structured, company recognised decision making process.
I definitely agree that certain frameworks have the potential to limit thought processes and that is a bad thing, however, in a dynamic environment it is essential that however you make decisions contains the following elements:
Logic
Risk Assessment
Options
Review
All of the tools out there incorporate those elements and some expand them. My own company's tool is TDODAR (as was my previous company).
Tying this into TEM, NASA ackowledged in the 1970's that threats and errors result in undesired aircraft states. These states cause crashes and it needed to be sorted out. It has taken the best part of 40 years and 5 iterations of CRM before most airlines have been in a position to be anywhere near to effective TEM.
TEM has not (nor will it ever) replace CRM, it is another layer of safety in its own rite. Fundamental to TEM though is making a safe decision on how to manage the risks; that cant be achieved without a structured decision making tool that all protagonists are familiar with.
TEM really is important and I know that my own decision making process has changed as a result of TEM becoming mainstream. On more than one occasion at the review stage, threat and error analysis has made an already safe decision that much safer.
From my experience as both a CRMI and a Line Trainer, although the frameworks are there and laid down, they do not hinder effective decision making. Once the crew have had the pro's and con's of their use explained, they are able to adapt them and work with them in order to do what they are there for: enable a SAFE decision to be made.
Hope this helps.
BS
Perhaps the bigger issue here is that TEM is very difficult to achieve without a structured, company recognised decision making process.
I definitely agree that certain frameworks have the potential to limit thought processes and that is a bad thing, however, in a dynamic environment it is essential that however you make decisions contains the following elements:
Logic
Risk Assessment
Options
Review
All of the tools out there incorporate those elements and some expand them. My own company's tool is TDODAR (as was my previous company).
Tying this into TEM, NASA ackowledged in the 1970's that threats and errors result in undesired aircraft states. These states cause crashes and it needed to be sorted out. It has taken the best part of 40 years and 5 iterations of CRM before most airlines have been in a position to be anywhere near to effective TEM.
TEM has not (nor will it ever) replace CRM, it is another layer of safety in its own rite. Fundamental to TEM though is making a safe decision on how to manage the risks; that cant be achieved without a structured decision making tool that all protagonists are familiar with.
TEM really is important and I know that my own decision making process has changed as a result of TEM becoming mainstream. On more than one occasion at the review stage, threat and error analysis has made an already safe decision that much safer.
From my experience as both a CRMI and a Line Trainer, although the frameworks are there and laid down, they do not hinder effective decision making. Once the crew have had the pro's and con's of their use explained, they are able to adapt them and work with them in order to do what they are there for: enable a SAFE decision to be made.
Hope this helps.
BS
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What Aeronautical Decision Making tool does your airline use?
LOGIC, adjusted by COMMON SENSE has always worked for me, in military operations and then airlines, but I guess that's too old-fashioned for MBAs in 2015. I do see that not being spreadsheet-based it's very, very difficult to use.
LOGIC, adjusted by COMMON SENSE has always worked for me, in military operations and then airlines, but I guess that's too old-fashioned for MBAs in 2015. I do see that not being spreadsheet-based it's very, very difficult to use.
