Severe wake turbulence encounters. Your experiences.
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Severe wake turbulence encounters. Your experiences.
During type rating training in flight simulators, the syllabus as approved by State regulators is usually based upon the manufacturer's course albeit with local modifications. Typically it includes 8-10 full flight sessions of four hours each shared between two crew. Depending on any spare time available there is usually time for additional sequences not in the syllabus of training but that can also depend on the experience and personal enthusiasm of the instructor. Some can't get out of the simulator fast enough while others enjoy talking to their students after essential debriefing.
In recent times, unusual attitude recoveries are part of the type rating syllabus while these also may be left to future recurrent training simulator sessions. Wake turbulence encounters in IMC are rarely introduced in simulator training although candidates are expected to know the theory.
Rarely do we read published incident reports on wake turbulence encounters even though they probably happen often around the world although with not necessarily fatal results. Because of this paucity of incident reports, it becomes difficult for a simulator instructor to talk from experience, leaving him to perhaps draw on his own recollections from long ago in a light aircraft. In fact it may be he has never experienced a serious encounter with wake turbulence. For example, although very experienced in jet transports I have never run into an alarming case of wake turbulence.
It would be greatly appreciated if Pprune contributors could spare the time to place on this thread details of their encounters so that simulator instructors and current pilots could learn from them. If possible detail type of aircraft you were flying and the type that caused the wake turbulence, the unexpectedness of the encounter, altitude, configuration, and angles of bank and pitch attitude reached before recovery was effected. IMC or VMC.
From your descriptions, type rating candidates can read about real life examples and then see these in the simulator and be taught safest recovery techniques. With low experience pilots being employed world wide due to hiring policies, their first experience of a severe wake turbulence encounter is liable to be quite frightening especially in IMC or at night. A picture is worth a thousand words and it is in the simulator where the picture starts.
Thanks for offering your time, if you feel so inclined
In recent times, unusual attitude recoveries are part of the type rating syllabus while these also may be left to future recurrent training simulator sessions. Wake turbulence encounters in IMC are rarely introduced in simulator training although candidates are expected to know the theory.
Rarely do we read published incident reports on wake turbulence encounters even though they probably happen often around the world although with not necessarily fatal results. Because of this paucity of incident reports, it becomes difficult for a simulator instructor to talk from experience, leaving him to perhaps draw on his own recollections from long ago in a light aircraft. In fact it may be he has never experienced a serious encounter with wake turbulence. For example, although very experienced in jet transports I have never run into an alarming case of wake turbulence.
It would be greatly appreciated if Pprune contributors could spare the time to place on this thread details of their encounters so that simulator instructors and current pilots could learn from them. If possible detail type of aircraft you were flying and the type that caused the wake turbulence, the unexpectedness of the encounter, altitude, configuration, and angles of bank and pitch attitude reached before recovery was effected. IMC or VMC.
From your descriptions, type rating candidates can read about real life examples and then see these in the simulator and be taught safest recovery techniques. With low experience pilots being employed world wide due to hiring policies, their first experience of a severe wake turbulence encounter is liable to be quite frightening especially in IMC or at night. A picture is worth a thousand words and it is in the simulator where the picture starts.
Thanks for offering your time, if you feel so inclined
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In Iran in the mid 70's I witnessed a large Cessna twin being routed in behind an Iranair 747Sp on the approach which resulted in the Cessna rolling inverted and diving vertically into the ground.A British/Iranian familly were on board including a classmate of my son.
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Last November we were doing a ferrying flight in an Airbus 319. It was the second leg of the day, we were cleared initialy to FL340 even though we requested 380 as there was a 77W same route opposite direction at FL350.
As we visually cleared the traffic, I called ATC to advise them we were clear.
They instantly cleared us to climb. The PF managed the climb, quick as a flash.
I didnt have enough time to react nor realise, we hit the wake turbulence about 200ft in our climb and it was bad! Wings banked almost 20degrees to the left then to the right. I thought the AP would flip off but it remained on. Quite impressive ! I fly near the ITCZ almost on a daily basis and I can tell you i've never hit such strong turbulence before.
As we visually cleared the traffic, I called ATC to advise them we were clear.
They instantly cleared us to climb. The PF managed the climb, quick as a flash.
I didnt have enough time to react nor realise, we hit the wake turbulence about 200ft in our climb and it was bad! Wings banked almost 20degrees to the left then to the right. I thought the AP would flip off but it remained on. Quite impressive ! I fly near the ITCZ almost on a daily basis and I can tell you i've never hit such strong turbulence before.
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Similar experience in A319 vs B777. 777 at FL350 18 miles in front and routeing in the same direction. We were cleared to FL370. Climbing through FL345 approx we passed through their wake. Aircraft cycled through 3 pitch and roll excursions. 35 degrees bank and plus / minus 10 degrees pitch. All quite suddenly. A/P tripped out unsurprisingly. Even more unsurprisingly nobody was hurt in the cabin.
Filed an ASR, the reply I received was that the company would be very surprised if it was a wake encounter given the spacing. My reply to that was 'not half as f(@&ing surprised as we were'.
Dramatic certainly but had worse CAT over the Pyrenees.
Filed an ASR, the reply I received was that the company would be very surprised if it was a wake encounter given the spacing. My reply to that was 'not half as f(@&ing surprised as we were'.
Dramatic certainly but had worse CAT over the Pyrenees.
The 777 being three minutes ahead aproximately, it doesn't surprise me in the least. A while back we could see the contrail of a 767 ahead of us and 1000ft above, we got some lite chop off the wake, I called them up and asked them their position and they were 80nm ahead of us.
There have been some instances over the years where an engine surge has resulted from an engine 'swallowing' the center of the wake vortex.
In one case, both engines on a 767 surged about a second apart as the aircraft passed through the wake of a preceding aircraft during takeoff
.
Fortunately, as far as has been reported, the surges have always been momentary and thrust rapidly recovered.
In one case, both engines on a 767 surged about a second apart as the aircraft passed through the wake of a preceding aircraft during takeoff
.Fortunately, as far as has been reported, the surges have always been momentary and thrust rapidly recovered.
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Fokker 50 five miles behind a 747. Result 85 degrees of bank and 15 degrees nose down. Fortunately we were in cloud and the passengers never saw how extreme the upset was. They just felt it! The biggest problem was that the go-around altitude was lower than our upset altitude.
