UPS 1354 NTSB Investigation - CVR
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IAN W:
RNP AR already offers a stabilized approach with RF legs as necessary, and a short, straight final segment (just prior to DA if necessary). But, both the FAA and ICAO are hard-over on the benign obstacle clearance environment in the visual segment. The equipment requirements are also burdensome.
RNP AR blending with GLS would be the ideal solution. But, that would require FMS redesigns and so forth.
In any case the likes of BHM Runway 18 are unlikely to benefit from future improvements in avionics. BHM 18 actually works quite nicely today with an advisory VPATH and the PAPI requirement.
But the major unexploited advantage is that you can be fully 'established' 'stabilized' on a GLS procedure with turns and changes of vertical profile as part of the automated final approach. Yes it will make it different for the procedure designers used to using straight lines at fixed descent rates for final approach and the definition of obstacle clearance surfaces may have to change, but the prize is standard instrument approaches to all runway ends anywhere.
RNP AR blending with GLS would be the ideal solution. But, that would require FMS redesigns and so forth.
In any case the likes of BHM Runway 18 are unlikely to benefit from future improvements in avionics. BHM 18 actually works quite nicely today with an advisory VPATH and the PAPI requirement.
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What was the cause of the pilot`s dead since the cockpit is relatevely intact?
I`ve heard in several accidents Airbus pilot`s seats released from the floor causing to pilots heavy injuries and dead.
I`ve heard in several accidents Airbus pilot`s seats released from the floor causing to pilots heavy injuries and dead.
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Seats remained attached..blunt-force trauma which can be either from striking an object, or a result of severe G's experienced during aircraft impact..resutling in internal injuries...
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The seat was found outside the plane, but NTSB attributes that to extrication efforts:
[QUOTE]"The captain’s seat was found outside the airplane, lying next to the forward fuselage. The seat was mostly intact, and the forward seat pan area was bent downward. The floor under the seat was buckled upwards several inches and the seat pedestal base mounting structure was pitched forward, accordingly. The pedestal base was severed at the floor, consistent with reported extrication efforts ...."[QUOTE]
NTSB Survival Factors Exhibit 6-A Factual Report of Group Chairman
Document 42 ATC 3 - Attachment 1 - BAA - ATC Airport Emergency Operating Procedures Letter of Agreement Filing Date December 16, 2013 4 page(s) of Image (PDF or TIFF) 0 Photos
[ Note: the URL link is correct, despite the incorrect description automatically appended to my post.]
The same document discusses the relevant autopsy findings regarding the flight crew. You can draw your own conclusions from it. Several photos in that document also offer an idea of the impact experienced.
[QUOTE]"The captain’s seat was found outside the airplane, lying next to the forward fuselage. The seat was mostly intact, and the forward seat pan area was bent downward. The floor under the seat was buckled upwards several inches and the seat pedestal base mounting structure was pitched forward, accordingly. The pedestal base was severed at the floor, consistent with reported extrication efforts ...."[QUOTE]
NTSB Survival Factors Exhibit 6-A Factual Report of Group Chairman
Document 42 ATC 3 - Attachment 1 - BAA - ATC Airport Emergency Operating Procedures Letter of Agreement Filing Date December 16, 2013 4 page(s) of Image (PDF or TIFF) 0 Photos
[ Note: the URL link is correct, despite the incorrect description automatically appended to my post.]
The same document discusses the relevant autopsy findings regarding the flight crew. You can draw your own conclusions from it. Several photos in that document also offer an idea of the impact experienced.
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New Press Report stating the obvious
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The larger parallax created by the PAPI lights being only 47' above ground, instead of 75' above ground may have been enough to obscure them from the pilots view. I don't think he ever saw the PAPI lights. If he'd seen the PAPI lights, he'd have seen the bad indication, and it would have cued him to go around. Instead, coming down fast out of the low clouds, he saw the runway, and it gives little indication other than where to aim. If anything, it said to him "I'm here. Put it on the tarmac". Of course, that doesn't excuse not going around, when he came down so fast and steep while approaching an unfamiliar runway, but it could be what happened. I think 9999 out of 10,000 times, in the same situation, the pilot would have made the right judgment and gone around, but the one time he didn't, it ended up being the final hole in the Swiss cheese. I think maybe not one or the other pilots being fatigued matters so much, but I think, maybe they both were fatigued, contributing to the poor judgment to go through with the landing. From what I read about these pilots, they may not have been the very best on type, but they were good, enthusiastic aviators and righteous human beings.
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If they had flown the procedure correctly and not departed MDA unless the PAPI was indicating "on slope" we wouldn't be discussing them.
The 47 feet doesn't mean anything unless you don't come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI "on slope."
The 47 feet doesn't mean anything unless you don't come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI "on slope."
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Any doctors on this board? That document about survival factors and the injuries described sound like the captain died immediately, but the co-pilot could possibly have been saved, had there been a chance of immediate intensive care?
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aterpster
"If they had flown the procedure correctly and not departed MDA unless the PAPI was indicating "on slope" we wouldn't be discussing them.
The 47 feet doesn't mean anything unless you don't come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI "on slope.""
aterpster, You're right, but they did come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI. I'm just pointing out that the difference between 75 feet and 47 feet could have been the next to last hole in the Swiss cheese (The final one: Not going around).
"If they had flown the procedure correctly and not departed MDA unless the PAPI was indicating "on slope" we wouldn't be discussing them.
The 47 feet doesn't mean anything unless you don't come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI "on slope.""
aterpster, You're right, but they did come out of the clouds way below MDA and way below the PAPI. I'm just pointing out that the difference between 75 feet and 47 feet could have been the next to last hole in the Swiss cheese (The final one: Not going around).
Not sop?
If you are going to do non- precision approach why not have PM in LNAV/VNAV and thus have a decent glide slope to back you up?
Too many pilots don't understand what a great tool GPS is in approach phase.
Too many pilots don't understand what a great tool GPS is in approach phase.
it up somehow so the VNAV never captured?
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Flying late departures then connecting to a red-eye isn't for everyone Going to sleep at 0700 doesn't work for most people, including pilots. A lot of guys I worked with flying RJs wanted a FedEx or UPS job for the pay. They pay more than the majors. The get-there-itis is off the charts in the FedEx/UPS world as they want a bed ASAP. I do the occasional trans-con red-eye to my base, NYC. We are well-rested though. It isn't a lifestyle, it is a bid package.
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The F/O's husband is now suing Honeywell for improperly functioning GPWS. He's suing for a relatively low $2 million.
Husband of UPS pilot sues over deadly crash | HeraldNet.com - Business
Husband of UPS pilot sues over deadly crash | HeraldNet.com - Business
I note there was no discussion between the crew of target descent rates for the VSI, or likely nose angles, nor changes thereto when they were held high.
Is this normal? Even if they had held "instrument discipline", how would they have known what to look for?
I was taught to do this for all approaches, or height changes during intercepts (RAF).
p.s. I've seen #28 were this is first mentioned, but I am wondering what is standard procedure for non-precision approach briefings (esp. at night) these days.
Is this normal? Even if they had held "instrument discipline", how would they have known what to look for?
I was taught to do this for all approaches, or height changes during intercepts (RAF).
p.s. I've seen #28 were this is first mentioned, but I am wondering what is standard procedure for non-precision approach briefings (esp. at night) these days.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 18th Aug 2014 at 01:30.
Flyboyike says: F/Os aren't qualified to fly? That's a new one.
Funny thing though, ................... when I was in the right seat, I didn't notice it nearly as much.
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August 25, 2014 - NTSB Revokes Party Status of a Union and an Airline for Violating Agreements
August 25
The National Transportation Safety Board has revoked the party status of both the Independent Pilots Association and UPS Airlines from its ongoing investigation of UPS Flight 1354, an A300-600 air cargo flight that crashed on approach to Birmingham, Ala., last August.
The National Transportation Safety Board has revoked the party status of both the Independent Pilots Association and UPS Airlines from its ongoing investigation of UPS Flight 1354, an A300-600 air cargo flight that crashed on approach to Birmingham, Ala., last August.
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Microsleep Mitigation strategies
having some nights,with Postal services...sleep becomes to be the prime,and mixing it with else,s everyday life..morning arrivals are,-well you know. I have fallen in sleep in finals,many times,microsleeps to be scared of. weather,smooth,routine and a good pro friends in cockpit have saved me from worse.as i have them,sometimes. so ref,admitting that,i find a very good reason to be against any stretch of duty and flying hours,which seems to be the trend nowadays. we are even now over the human capability in many a ways.
Seems to offer 30 minutes of solid protection and 30 more minutes of pretty good protection. Naps work well too if you can grab them, but the two in combination is even better.
How you get your coffee fix is up to you but flying near the ground in microsleep mode is foolhardy.