Polish LOT 767 wheels up landing
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Just SLF but even I don't understand Lear60's criticism.How long would you have had to fly round in circles to burn off enough fuel and reduce weight to have anything like the chance of the landing they eventualy achieved? I would have thought trying to land sooner, heavier and with a lot more fuel (and no wheels which is also probably a pretty big drawback)would have been far more dangerous?
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And consider this: it doesn't make any difference at all whether you try your luck at alternate gear extention (which is supposed to work anyway) in New York, or eight hours later in Warsaw.
In my opinion, a perfectly logical decision. You just can't beat Murphy if he decides to fail the alternate system as well. Looks to me the crew played the hand they were dealt perfectly.
In my opinion, a perfectly logical decision. You just can't beat Murphy if he decides to fail the alternate system as well. Looks to me the crew played the hand they were dealt perfectly.
jetsy
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Awaryjne l
Half way through the article there is a pic of the LOT16 burning fuel while flying over Warsaw.
The tower tells the pilot, no gears and wishes them good luck.
Half way through the article there is a pic of the LOT16 burning fuel while flying over Warsaw.
The tower tells the pilot, no gears and wishes them good luck.
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The C system has three independent pumps powered by two independent sources. Therefore the only likely way for the system to completely fail is total fluid loss.
The landing gear has a Alternate system which relies on electrically releasing the three landing gear uplocks and allowing them to fall under gravity. You cannot selectively lower each landing gear via the Altn system so in all probability the entire Altn system also failed.
On the face of it, there must have been multiple failures on this aircraft. C hydraulic system, Altn Landing gear system? The question will be why.
Great landing by the crew, but I'd hold off on lionising them until all the facts are known.
I am a glider pilot too... but knowing how to fly a glider probably contributed very little to the safe outcome of this incident.
The landing gear has a Alternate system which relies on electrically releasing the three landing gear uplocks and allowing them to fall under gravity. You cannot selectively lower each landing gear via the Altn system so in all probability the entire Altn system also failed.
On the face of it, there must have been multiple failures on this aircraft. C hydraulic system, Altn Landing gear system? The question will be why.
Great landing by the crew, but I'd hold off on lionising them until all the facts are known.
I am a glider pilot too... but knowing how to fly a glider probably contributed very little to the safe outcome of this incident.
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Unless Murphy shows up over the Atlantic and demands to go to Greenland in the middle of the night.
I guess it all depends on how comfortable you are with statistics and odds of 10 to the minus X.
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Originally Posted by Ptkay
Cpt. Wrona is a glider pilot, he perfectly kept the glide slope and AoA
? It was only the wheels that were missing I believe, not the engines
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When, 22 years ago, I started flying 737's, I was told ( & how many times subsequently forgot ? ? ? 
) whatever, WHATEVER the problem, check the circuit breakers, then, you, or the first officer, get out the seat, slide it forward, & check again, because many, many , faults can be fixed in 1 second by resetting a tripped circuit breaker.
As I retire for the evening, my fondest wish , for Polish colleagues, is simply that the system that controls the releasing of the up-locks, has not "malfunctioned" by the simple expedient of requiring that someone reset a circuit breaker.
This being the case, I understand, whole-heartedly the mistake, & can also predict (accurately) the outcome of the court of enquiry.
Hoping it is nothing of the sort, & that the guys involved are going to bed sometime later tonight I imagine,"well rested "
after combatting the effects of dehydration following a long transatantic flight. 
Edited to say, the CB's on a 737 are hidden, in every nook & cranny possible, but principally behind where you sit,the 757 (& I guess 767? ) appears to present most of them right above your skull, so,my paranoid scenario is much less likely I guess/hope.
) whatever, WHATEVER the problem, check the circuit breakers, then, you, or the first officer, get out the seat, slide it forward, & check again, because many, many , faults can be fixed in 1 second by resetting a tripped circuit breaker.As I retire for the evening, my fondest wish , for Polish colleagues, is simply that the system that controls the releasing of the up-locks, has not "malfunctioned" by the simple expedient of requiring that someone reset a circuit breaker.
This being the case, I understand, whole-heartedly the mistake, & can also predict (accurately) the outcome of the court of enquiry.
Hoping it is nothing of the sort, & that the guys involved are going to bed sometime later tonight I imagine,"well rested "
after combatting the effects of dehydration following a long transatantic flight. Edited to say, the CB's on a 737 are hidden, in every nook & cranny possible, but principally behind where you sit,the 757 (& I guess 767? ) appears to present most of them right above your skull, so,my paranoid scenario is much less likely I guess/hope.
Last edited by captplaystation; 1st Nov 2011 at 23:06.
Originally Posted by Skol
I've always found that it pays to wait until the Court of Enquiry finishes its work before handing out the medals.
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
I really can't believe the hype about a straight forward wheels up landing. There's nothing extraordinary about it. Any commercial pilot is capable of it. It's not that unusual an event.
Originally Posted by IcePack
Mm! No spoilers even after full touch down.
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Regarding no spoiler deployment, on the last video you can see spoilers deploying briefly on the port wing but it would seem only as part of the roll control. I guess if they dumped the lift straight after touchdown that would lead to a lot more friction on the runway at high speed and possible less response from the rudder.
(I'm not a professional pilot yet. Unless someone wants to give me my first job)
(I'm not a professional pilot yet. Unless someone wants to give me my first job
)
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Mm! No spoilers even after full touch down.
No wheels on runway... So no weight on wheels switch could be triggered!
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mnez,
A passenger of this flight I had an opportunity to talk with said they have been invited to Presidential/Senator lounges.
so they had to wait 5 hours standing in the corridor just in front of immigration because border guard won't let them in without papers - as one of them reported.
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767 ALT Gear Extension employs electric unlock of MG Doors and Nose gear.
Here is an "on jacks" test of 767 ALT Gear Extension that failed:
The subject case appears to have never released the locks if reports of "no hydraulics" are true.
Here is an "on jacks" test of 767 ALT Gear Extension that failed:
The subject case appears to have never released the locks if reports of "no hydraulics" are true.
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Job well done on the landing... one thing strikes me as curious though...
I'm not 767 rated so the following is probably incorrect, just want to ask it anyway.
Even if the gear uplocks themselves would not release wouldn't the MLG doors open? But without HYD C they would be unable to close them. Is this correct?
I'm not 767 rated so the following is probably incorrect, just want to ask it anyway.
Even if the gear uplocks themselves would not release wouldn't the MLG doors open? But without HYD C they would be unable to close them. Is this correct?
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When, 22 years ago, I started flying 737's, I was told ( & how many times subsequently forgot ? ? ? ) whatever, WHATEVER the problem, check the circuit breakers, then, you, or the first officer, get out the seat, slide it forward, & check again, because many, many , faults can be fixed in 1 second by resetting a tripped circuit breaker.
As I retire for the evening, my fondest wish , for Polish colleagues, is simply that the system that controls the releasing of the up-locks, has not "malfunctioned" by the simple expedient of requiring that someone reset a circuit breaker.
This being the case, I understand, whole-heartedly the mistake, & can also predict (accurately) the outcome of the court of enquiry.
Hoping it is nothing of the sort, & that the guys involved are going to bed sometime later tonight I imagine,"well rested " after combatting the effects of dehydration following a long transatantic flight.
Edited to say, the CB's on a 737 are hidden, in every nook & cranny possible, but principally behind where you sit,the 757 (& I guess 767? ) appears to present most of them right above your skull, so,my paranoid scenario is much less likely I guess/hope.
) whatever, WHATEVER the problem, check the circuit breakers, then, you, or the first officer, get out the seat, slide it forward, & check again, because many, many , faults can be fixed in 1 second by resetting a tripped circuit breaker.As I retire for the evening, my fondest wish , for Polish colleagues, is simply that the system that controls the releasing of the up-locks, has not "malfunctioned" by the simple expedient of requiring that someone reset a circuit breaker.
This being the case, I understand, whole-heartedly the mistake, & can also predict (accurately) the outcome of the court of enquiry.
Hoping it is nothing of the sort, & that the guys involved are going to bed sometime later tonight I imagine,"well rested "
after combatting the effects of dehydration following a long transatantic flight. Edited to say, the CB's on a 737 are hidden, in every nook & cranny possible, but principally behind where you sit,the 757 (& I guess 767? ) appears to present most of them right above your skull, so,my paranoid scenario is much less likely I guess/hope.
It would be completely stupid if the crew noticed the failure of the central hydraulic system and ALTN GEAR system and thought "oh, erm, no point trying to troubleshoot up here. Let's land and then the investigation will take care of it."
They had 8 hours to troubleshoot everything to do with the central hydraulic system failure and another hour (?) to troubleshoot the ALTN GEAR failure.
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Mm! No spoilers even after full touch down.
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"There's nothing extraordinary about it. Any commercial pilot is capable of it."