Fatigue
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatigue
In my company, Ryanair, I am told that there is little or no evidence of fatigue being a problem for the pilots working there.
Well really. I work there and feel like the living dead every week of earlies and sometimes on lates.
Is it just me ? Am I suffering from a sleeping disorder ?
So what is the truth ? How many of us are suffering from fatigue, in all airlines ? How many of us know we will not make retirement due to it ? Or is it really just me ?
Well really. I work there and feel like the living dead every week of earlies and sometimes on lates.
Is it just me ? Am I suffering from a sleeping disorder ?
So what is the truth ? How many of us are suffering from fatigue, in all airlines ? How many of us know we will not make retirement due to it ? Or is it really just me ?
e28 driver
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatigue, or the F word as it's known because it's practically a swear word in airlines I've worked at is barely uttered. The last time I heard it was cited by a crew member as a reason for not being fit the company treated him as if he was mismanaging his private life as they didn't accept that their 'legal' rosters could be the cause. Another time the company put the crew member down as sick and demanded a self cert form. It's endemic as far as my experience goes, but we all play our part in covering it up so nothing changes. And just wait til the proposed EASA FTLs come in, apparently we (in the U.K.) have had it too good for too long - according to my local MEP.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its just denial of the problem until theres a fatal accident, then there will be a collective response of 'shock horror, how could the airlines let this happen', completely ignoring the fact that the EU and the local legislators are allowing and promoting working practises that will inevitably lead to the eventual accident.
There is no solution, pilots have allowed themselves to be 'raced to the bottom' and have demonstrated that they will prostitute themselves in any way to get on the greasy pole. Once there, they are intimidated by management to always go just that extra inch to save money and 'get the job done'.
We should be grateful that we work in the EU, at least we where a figleave of respectability and pay slightly more than lipservice to safety.
As to fatigue, just go sick when it all becomes too much. No-one, but yourself, will be hurt if you hit a tree at 4 in the morning after your 3rd late finish. Obviously, do not state fatigue as your reason for being sick, something more inventive will be required.
You are not alone, there are thousands of us staggering from one day to the next like walking zombies. Invest well and retire early is the only advice I have!
There is no solution, pilots have allowed themselves to be 'raced to the bottom' and have demonstrated that they will prostitute themselves in any way to get on the greasy pole. Once there, they are intimidated by management to always go just that extra inch to save money and 'get the job done'.
We should be grateful that we work in the EU, at least we where a figleave of respectability and pay slightly more than lipservice to safety.
As to fatigue, just go sick when it all becomes too much. No-one, but yourself, will be hurt if you hit a tree at 4 in the morning after your 3rd late finish. Obviously, do not state fatigue as your reason for being sick, something more inventive will be required.
You are not alone, there are thousands of us staggering from one day to the next like walking zombies. Invest well and retire early is the only advice I have!
Guest
Posts: n/a
If you're too 'fatigued' to work properly (ie bloody exhausted), do everyone a favour (including yourself!) and phone in sick.
No one's going to thank you for rocking up cream crackered and if you should screw up at work, it's no defence at all to say that you were 'fatigued'.
The company will just say that you shouldn't have been at work if you weren't fit to perform your duties. And they'd be right.
So it's either- 'man up' and shutup or....
Call in sick.
That's yer two choices. Bleating that you're shagged out will get you into a world of hurt. It's the same where I work.
Crying 'fatigue!', however well intentioned, goes down very badly.
No one's going to thank you for rocking up cream crackered and if you should screw up at work, it's no defence at all to say that you were 'fatigued'.
The company will just say that you shouldn't have been at work if you weren't fit to perform your duties. And they'd be right.
So it's either- 'man up' and shutup or....
Call in sick.
That's yer two choices. Bleating that you're shagged out will get you into a world of hurt. It's the same where I work.
Crying 'fatigue!', however well intentioned, goes down very badly.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatigue
Without being flip simply feel too tired to comment but must try !
Infact simply too tired to pay the telephone bill, cut the grass, mend the rotting wood work around the window, or carry out many of the very basic fuctions of life.
Fatigue makes the job and the accompanying life style a nightmare. Invest wisely is good advice and when you can, get out of the industry before it wrecks your long term health.
We all have a duty to ourselves, passengers, colleagues, and companies not to operate when fatigued and part of that duty sadly involves taking the inevitable flak from the management when we make sound safety based decisions.
However an awkward phone call from a management type is much better than risking a smoking hole anyday and the way im feeling right now is if any manager wishes to challenge my very occasional decisions not to work when fatigued then I will treat it as a good opportunity to quit and call it a day .
Infact simply too tired to pay the telephone bill, cut the grass, mend the rotting wood work around the window, or carry out many of the very basic fuctions of life.
Fatigue makes the job and the accompanying life style a nightmare. Invest wisely is good advice and when you can, get out of the industry before it wrecks your long term health.
We all have a duty to ourselves, passengers, colleagues, and companies not to operate when fatigued and part of that duty sadly involves taking the inevitable flak from the management when we make sound safety based decisions.
However an awkward phone call from a management type is much better than risking a smoking hole anyday and the way im feeling right now is if any manager wishes to challenge my very occasional decisions not to work when fatigued then I will treat it as a good opportunity to quit and call it a day .
Ryanair, I am told that there is little or no evidence of fatigue being a problem for the pilots working there.
Well really. I work there and feel like the living dead every week of earlies and sometimes on lates.
Well really. I work there and feel like the living dead every week of earlies and sometimes on lates.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FATIGUE REPORT! Yeah, right on, we've got one of those systems in place too, no-one fills them in because they are all too afraid of the ramifications if they do! CATCH-22. (But at least we have got a system in place so fatigue can be accurately monitored.LOL)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to RYR management their rosters do not produce fatigue, so if you are fatigued it is your fault. Your ' suitability ' for the job will therefore have to be examined by personnel. Hence all pilots are too scared to say that they are fatigued.
In any case, as we are fatigued on a regular basis, if we actually all refused to operate in such a condition, my guess is that the company's business model would fall to bits. Once the race to the bottom has started there is really nothing unions, regulators or politicians can do. It's just economics.
I was told a few years ago that one of our crews stated in a safety report that fatigue may have caused them to make an error. They were told, it is alleged, by the boss that he did not want to see the word fatigue in any safety report as ' RYR did not have a fatigue problem ' ! This story may or may not be true, but the point is that all pilots knew about it and hence the fear was created, job done.
In any case, as we are fatigued on a regular basis, if we actually all refused to operate in such a condition, my guess is that the company's business model would fall to bits. Once the race to the bottom has started there is really nothing unions, regulators or politicians can do. It's just economics.
I was told a few years ago that one of our crews stated in a safety report that fatigue may have caused them to make an error. They were told, it is alleged, by the boss that he did not want to see the word fatigue in any safety report as ' RYR did not have a fatigue problem ' ! This story may or may not be true, but the point is that all pilots knew about it and hence the fear was created, job done.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: DXB
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatigue is the biggest problem facing the Airline industry. Sadly most airlines are run by bean counters not Pilots (in another way that's very good 
) Admitting to fatigue is another way of admitting to a weakness in the eyes of the management. One problem is that most Pilots who will have an accident due to fatigue will not have it in the cockpit where there is someone else to watch their back, they will have it on the drive home from the airport at 3am. So the effects of fatigue on actual aviation are never fully realised, but they do exist. Good Luck with whatever you choose to do to resolve the dichotomy.
) Admitting to fatigue is another way of admitting to a weakness in the eyes of the management. One problem is that most Pilots who will have an accident due to fatigue will not have it in the cockpit where there is someone else to watch their back, they will have it on the drive home from the airport at 3am. So the effects of fatigue on actual aviation are never fully realised, but they do exist. Good Luck with whatever you choose to do to resolve the dichotomy.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise
Stick in a fatigue report and see what happens. Man up or shut up.
Failing that send me your schedule and i'll put it through a biomathematical system called sleep wake predictor. Then over a months roster you complete a sleep diary including a subjective fatigue report at say top of drop on each sector.
We can compare results of the predictive vv actual and i'll get you a scientific view on it.
So there you go, you just ranting or serious about your fatigue claim?
Stick in a fatigue report and see what happens. Man up or shut up.
Failing that send me your schedule and i'll put it through a biomathematical system called sleep wake predictor. Then over a months roster you complete a sleep diary including a subjective fatigue report at say top of drop on each sector.
We can compare results of the predictive vv actual and i'll get you a scientific view on it.
So there you go, you just ranting or serious about your fatigue claim?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well really. I work there and feel like the living dead every week of earlies and sometimes on lates.
Is it just me ? Am I suffering from a sleeping disorder ?
Is it just me ? Am I suffering from a sleeping disorder ?
PM
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there is little or no evidence
(If you are afraid to lose your job, which you might rightfully be according to some posters above, one step in the right direction would be to unionize. Unions are not, as some think, a magical tool to ensure higher pay, but the combined efforts of a workforce to ensure that worker protection regulations are actually practiced.)
