L@ser attacks on Aircraft

[JOE-FBS]

Doesn't just happen to you professionals either. I was doing the last base leg of my night qualification tonight when some fecker in the armpit of Coventry flashed me with a laser. Still, I managed to both report it and continue to a decent landing. Three hours later with a pint of Marstons oatmeal stout to relax me, it still feels as though I have had a bit of dust in that eye. Hanging is too good for them, etc.

[Lemain]

You are never, ever going to prevent the criminally insane from getting access to lasers. There are lasers in so many different products with legitimate uses, and millions in 'circulation'. The answer is to prevent them from causing harm.

Laser light is coherent, collimated and monochromatic. There must be a technical solution. Goggles, maybe, but maybe a distraction on (statistically) the most dangerous phase of flight which is the time the pilots are most at risk due to attitude. Maybe a coating, or a screen that can be pulled down when lasers could be a risk, and easy to release if they are causing a problem with vision?

Welding goggles work very well - adapt that for a pull-down screen?

Just forget trying to stop or catch the criminals....it's a waste of time and effort.

[md80fanatic]

I have an 80 milliwatt green laser and ran a test with various colors of theatrical gel filters. The red filter completely consumed the green beam! When the laser source is viewed from the other side of the filter (pilot's perspective) there is no evidence the laser is even switched on (dark aperture hole). Perhaps a sheet can adhere to the cockpit window statically, or a roll could be used, as stated above, as a pull-down shade.

This is the data sheet associated with the filter material and color that I used:
Rosco US : Filters : Roscolux

[Lemain]

That's a low-pass filter and would cut off green nav lights and light signals. We'd be looking for a band-stop filter or a polarising filter that automatically self-adapts to coherent light? LCD technology, I suspect.

[lasernigel]

I have a reasonably powerful (I think legal) green laser; it lives in my jacket pocket, I find it extremely useful when giving presentations or pointing out things on an aeroplane on my regular periods in the hangar talking about modifications and problems.

So, don't please pressure to ban a very useful tool - just ensure that the misuse of that tool is a criminal act that is severely punished.

With all due respect, there is NO need to have a "green reasonably powerful laser" as a pointer. They should be limited to red only so less powerful.

Anything over 5mW should require a licence, there is no justification for the general public to have access to anything over that.

[Lemain]

With all due respect, there is NO need to have a "green reasonably powerful laser" as a pointer. They should be limited to red only so less powerful.

Anything over 5mW should require a licence, there is no justification for the general public to have access to anything over that.

With all due respect, who are you to state that there is "NO need" for anything? In any case, those who wish to do beastly things with equipment -- guns, knives, TASERs, CS gas, etc.) will obtain them and use them. By banning or limiting the sale of anything one tends to ban the legitimate user and intrigue the criminal who maybe had never before considered the 'fun' he could have with one.

When you talk about 'the general public' remember that we are all 'the general public' outside our own occupations or hobbies (e.g. Radio Amateurs, PPLs don't consider themselves as 'the general public'). The driver of the refuse truck, the train driver, even the bus conductor consider themselves not to be 'the general public'.

In my experience, anyone who says that 'the general public' should not have or do this or that means that for some reason they don't consider themselves as 'the general public'. So may I take it that you'd not count yourself as 'the general public in this context?

Dr Harold Shipman wasn't a member of the 'general public' and look what he did with the morphine that he obtained legally. When caring for my terminally ill father, I had enough morphine to kill half a dozen people yet I was safer than that particular doctor because unknown to society the doctor was criminally insane and I wasn't.

As for the risk to aircraft, you only need one criminally insane individual to bring down an aircraft -- with the same impact as Flight 103. Banning the sale of these things isn't going to reduce the risk. You need to protect against the attack, not try to prevent anyone from attacking.

By the way, I could quickly and easily adapt the 'gubbins' of a domestic microwave oven to kill or main dozens of people from a distance of many metres, invisibly and almost silently. Let's ban microwaves? Or just ban the general public? Or ban those who understand the gubbins well enough to make an offensive weapon? Or bang me up in pokey because I could if I wanted to?

[IcePaq]

These bullets could be used in an "anti-radiation" mode much like the "arm" and "harm" missiles.


Steerable bullet aims for mass army deployment ? The Register



They could probably manufacture one that you can just drop that will acquire the laser.

[ricardian]

And it's not just aircraft that are endangered - BBC report on train driver in Gloucester who had a laser shone in his eyes.

[Lemain]

And it's not just aircraft that are endangered - BBC report on train driver in Gloucester who had a laser shone in his eyes.

And they'll use them on cars, buses,... These are murderous cowards. Trouble is that if you try to ban the devices you will fail and just create yet another black market. On the one side, there needs to be adequate deterrent and on the other, 'armour' at least on public services where countless lives might be taken.

There is a difference, to my mind, between someone killing another for a rational motive -- e.g. to escape, to acquire, for love, and so on -- and quite another to deliberately murder people for the 'fun' of it. The latter group should be detained until they they are no longer physically capable of harming others (or executed if the regime permits that). A merciless justice and system of retribution with a high risk of detection would go some way towards stopping these murderers. There aren't many thieves in Saudi, and there aren't many one-handed men, either.

I guess that my views are politically incorrect, but each is entitled to his own view.

[PilotUnknown]

My question on this matter which has always been there is:

Do these people and the general non-aviation public realise by trying to paint or hit a target (with a laser) which is thousands of feet away actually can cause a real danger to the aircraft?

Could this be more an issue of education? I know most people know not to aim them at people, however could they see an aircraft as an object which may be too far away to hit or cause any real damage?

[magpienja]

A few years back I was sat in an HGV in the yard of a large shop when a young scrote was pointing one of the devices at me....I called the local police station whilst he continued to do it,

I was most surprised when the female police operator seemed totally uninterested and went on to tell me they had nobody to help me at that time,

What can you do if the authorities show little interest...I was disgusted.

[mbriscoe]

A few years back I was sat in an HGV in the yard of a large shop when a young scrote was pointing one of the devices at me....I called the local police station whilst he continued to do it,

I was most surprised when the female police operator seemed totally uninterested and went on to tell me they had nobody to help me at that time,

What can you do if the authorities show little interest...I was disgusted.

Tell her you saw them point it towards what you thought was a police car on a nearby road, they might take more interest then.

[Lemain]

One way forward for lasers would be to require lasers to be equipped with integral drivers that are pulse-coded for ID. It could be an offence to possess or use an un-coded device without an appropriate license. This would allow higher power devices to be sold legally for surveying, long distance pointing, experimentation, yet make it possible to detect individual units. The risk of detection with stiff penalties for abuse would be a deterrent as detection is credible.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thread drift, but why does PPRuNe seem to randomly turn l a s e r into la@er? Is it something akin to the L a n d R o v e r/ Trabant thing?

[skwinty]

I have a 25mW green laser that I use for astronomy.

Nobody but myself uses it and never towards anything other than the stars and planets.

It has an effective range of at least 25km.

They are easily purchased over the internet for about $20.

Mine came as a gift with some astronomy equipment that I purchased.

Good luck trying to get these lasers controlled, as they should be!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav

Thread drift, but why does PPRuNe seem to randomly turn l a s e r into la@er? Is it something akin to the L a n d R o v e r/ Trabant thing?

To avoid the website attracting adverts for the devices - and thus the potential situation of some scrote trying to use the defence in court "well, I thought it was fine to point it at aeroplanes, as a bought it from an advert on a well known professional pilots website".

G

[Tankertrashnav]

Never thought of that - thanks Genghis

[2EggOmelette]

I was wondering that too. Very smart indeed.

[AvMed.IN]

Wee Willy Winky said

...doesn't seem to take l@ser attacks on landing aircraft seriously

However the spurt in incidences of pranksters aiming handheld laser devices at aircraft during low level flying or while making an approach should raise alarm bells - it is a flight safety hazard and can damage retina .

[JFA]

Sometimes bad luck strikes home

Yeah gentleman, sometimes bad luck strikes.

The other day i got to positively identify the window of the building one of those suckers was pointing his little green pencil.

**** happens, i filled in a nice slim report with the help of my company legal staff. He was already identified, equipment seized and is into a world of legal trouble.

Note to followers, its cheaper not to point lasers at things that transport passengers.

PS: I almost forgot to write where. Lisbon, Portugal.