Position Lights in day time
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
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Position lights on in daytime make me think of that joke bumper sticker that reads, 'If you can read this you are too damn close!' If you can notice whether the position lights are on or off then you are very close indeed to another aircraft! Too close for it to matter much, I fear... but then there are people running around in catering trucks and suchlike, so I guess the lights 'on' option gets my vote.
In our outfit they are to be on per SOP, which relieves us of having to think for ourselves. Back when I used to be able to do that I think I left them off when in bright sunshine to save the bulbs but turned them on otherwise. Now I guess I would leave them on at all times as being a tiny fraction safer.
In our outfit they are to be on per SOP, which relieves us of having to think for ourselves. Back when I used to be able to do that I think I left them off when in bright sunshine to save the bulbs but turned them on otherwise. Now I guess I would leave them on at all times as being a tiny fraction safer.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Australia
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A previous operator I was with had 742/300's and 744's
On the Classic fleet, the lights were left on continuously to avoid thermal shock and `Save the bulbs'.
On the 744, the fleet practice was to turn them off in the daytime to------ you've got it, to `Save the bulbs'!
That's just aviation.
On the Classic fleet, the lights were left on continuously to avoid thermal shock and `Save the bulbs'.
On the 744, the fleet practice was to turn them off in the daytime to------ you've got it, to `Save the bulbs'!
That's just aviation.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Position Lights
I think the Australian Rules seem the most appropriate regarding the usage of Position Lights during night and conditions of poor visibility. As far Engineering is concerned, they can also put it on as required basis. Because soon enough someone from stores/ Acounts will come up with the data that by switching off the position lights during day they saved some thousands of Dollars on costs in a year........something akin to United or was it Delta saved $ 40,000 in a year by cutting out on Olives on their drinks !!!!
Enigmatologist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Tottering Upon Brink
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A long time ago in a galaxy far away I was ldg. at MYGF in my trusty Twin Commanche. Sometime during the flight I must have turned on the nav lights and didn't catch it. Upon throwing out the gear I did not get the usual little green lights. I went through the checklist pulled back on the throttles, checkall the things you can think of, opened gear extension doors and all,followed up witha tower flyby and then found the @#(&(^ switch for the navlights "on". Autodim to indicator lights rendered the lights too dim to see a difference in the bright Bahamian sun. Best to check out particular airplane's quirks before assuming one way or the other is best.
We used to pull the bezels off the lights in the CV's to check the lights in the daytime. Landing gear up is not a career plus and you'll need 59.5" to taxi.
We used to pull the bezels off the lights in the CV's to check the lights in the daytime. Landing gear up is not a career plus and you'll need 59.5" to taxi.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Lites on the ground is a good indicator that "Power" is on, on the aircraft. If it is unattended the company engineers will probably investigate and shut it now if it is not due out for a few hours or whatever.
It also Saves the battery!!
As at night or during the day, if lites are still on although the GPU/APU etc are shut down; it is an indication of Power still on, albeit only the battery.
I think that makes sense???
It also Saves the battery!!
As at night or during the day, if lites are still on although the GPU/APU etc are shut down; it is an indication of Power still on, albeit only the battery.
I think that makes sense???
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Fragman88, if that was a certain airline from the fragrant harbour, that was because on the 744 it was found that the lense covers were cracking due to the heat from the lamps with them left on 24/7. The lense covers are now made from a different spec material and are less prone to the effects of the heat generated by the lamps and generally don't crack anymore.
If you can't see a wingtip during daylight on the ground turning the pos lights on is'nt going to stop anybody driving into them!!!
If you can't see a wingtip during daylight on the ground turning the pos lights on is'nt going to stop anybody driving into them!!!
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I remember traveling through India, being amused at cars turning their lights off at intersections to save on electricity & bulbs. Where I live (not India) Motorcycles and Rental Cars have their lights "hot wired on" all the time. Everytime one of my home light-bulbs "blow" it's when I flick them on, maybe I should leave them going all the time!......whats my point!!..... it depends on your economics what you do.
My Company SOP is for Position lights to be on as an indication the a/c is powered, they remain on regardless, amongst the other things already described, it makes it particuarly easy to pick up a failed bulb on a walk-around, and extremely useful in contrasting and determining relative bearing and direction of other a/c, day and nite. especially on the rwy.
The Atmosphere I Operate in has a constantly changing viz from minute to minute, there is no way I am turning the Position lights on/off as I go into and out-of IMC or other areas of poor viz, "Set it and forget it" overall its gotta be safer.
PS; WHATUNION, Do you mean Cabin lights? have never heard of position lights powered from a "Hot bus" (standing-by to be corrected) therefore the problem is the Bat being left on, not the position lights which by that stage are your only chance to notice the a/c is still powered!
My Company SOP is for Position lights to be on as an indication the a/c is powered, they remain on regardless, amongst the other things already described, it makes it particuarly easy to pick up a failed bulb on a walk-around, and extremely useful in contrasting and determining relative bearing and direction of other a/c, day and nite. especially on the rwy.
The Atmosphere I Operate in has a constantly changing viz from minute to minute, there is no way I am turning the Position lights on/off as I go into and out-of IMC or other areas of poor viz, "Set it and forget it" overall its gotta be safer.
PS; WHATUNION, Do you mean Cabin lights? have never heard of position lights powered from a "Hot bus" (standing-by to be corrected) therefore the problem is the Bat being left on, not the position lights which by that stage are your only chance to notice the a/c is still powered!
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Everyone agrees that the regulations require the lights to be on during night time.
For the regulations, the start and end of night time at the aircraft position is determined at the surface. It also varies from country to country and at times of the year.....one country says 30 min after sunset until 30 min before sunrise, another says sunset to sunrise while yet another uses the first definition during the summer and the second one during the winter.
I have a distant memory of calculating the position of the aircraft at sunrise during a navigation exam but have never used the principle since.
So, for those who leave the lights off by day, when exactly do you turn on the lights and if it is when the sun sets at 35,000ft, isn't this after legal sunset (at the surface)?
Regards,
DFC
For the regulations, the start and end of night time at the aircraft position is determined at the surface. It also varies from country to country and at times of the year.....one country says 30 min after sunset until 30 min before sunrise, another says sunset to sunrise while yet another uses the first definition during the summer and the second one during the winter.
I have a distant memory of calculating the position of the aircraft at sunrise during a navigation exam but have never used the principle since.
So, for those who leave the lights off by day, when exactly do you turn on the lights and if it is when the sun sets at 35,000ft, isn't this after legal sunset (at the surface)?
Regards,
DFC
