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-   -   FAA Grounds 787s (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/505455-faa-grounds-787s.html)

cockney steve 11th June 2013 21:09

By 'Eck!...you are a fussy lot for a mere 116 million USD , you expect perfection? :} Just google "787 price" and you'll find an article in"Forbes" stating that 116 mill. is the going price (a 45% discount off list) Get yours today! whilst stocks last!:p the actual build -cost is $ 200 Mill....So, yes! they're literally buying their way into the market-place.

The Forbes article is quite enlightening.

jolihokistix 12th June 2013 04:49

One of the two latest incidents above (11 June) has just been translated and reported here: Singapore-bound JAL Dreamliner turns back due to anti-icing system glitch ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

Er... not so fast, the mods have deleted my own splendid translations above. :} Go with this one, more official then ... :ok:

Edit, the second incident has now been picked up in this article here, but in less detail and accuracy than my translation of yesterday.
ANA Boeing 787 has engine problem before takeoff ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

Edit 2. There were three incidents in the last three days, summarized here:
ANA Dreamliner domestic flight cancelled - Yahoo! Finance UK

Earl 13th June 2013 03:10

Any good F/E would have said wait.
You never identified the problem!
Same situation will occur again.
Only thing you have done is put a band aid over a bullet hole.
Cheap system to contain when happens again.
Never addressed the real problem or solved anything.
Probaly why they got rid of all F/E.
We knew the system and could cause them many problems.
Hope the pilots there now actually look at this.

ATC Watcher 13th June 2013 06:14


Boeing admitted in April that despite months of testing it did not know the root cause of the problems, but rolled out modifications it said would ensure the issue did not recur.
Japanese humor .

Mark in CA 13th June 2013 06:18

Underwriters Laboratories issues new test standards for lithium ion batteries
 
Probably doesn't apply directly to aircraft, but interesting nonetheless.

Our Lithium-ion Batteries journal covers four key subjects that
demonstrate how UL is working to enhance the safety of lithium-ion
batteries. Fault Tree Analysis is the foundation of how we approach
lithium-ion battery safety — by identifying and understanding the root
causes of failures. We found that one of the leading causes of failure is
an internal short circuit (ISC), so we developed a simple and repeatable
way to induce ISCs. The Indentation Induced ISC test enables us to
study battery behaviors when an ISC occurs. This and related research
has given us insights that we’ve used to update existing standards and
create new ones to address the most recent applications of lithiumion batteries.
Finally, a new area of potential concern, Aging Effects, is
a significant area we are focusing on, given the trend toward longer
battery life and second-use applications for lithium-ion batteries.

http://www.ul.com/global/documents/n...al_Issue_2.pdf

EEngr 13th June 2013 19:04


Boeing admitted in April that despite months of testing it did not know ....
That IS the root cause.

GEDriver 17th June 2013 08:14

B787 Battery Problems
 
Heard rumour from a guy who works for Boeing Company.
The Problem with B787 is NOT Battery itself, but its battery controller (to avoid from overcharging) made by Korean Company LG.
Any info on this???

archae86 17th June 2013 13:43

Securaplane
 

Originally Posted by GEDriver
Any info on this???

It has been widely and consistently reported since the start of this that the 787 battery charger is provided by Securaplane, which is not LG.

Doubtless there are plenty of semiconductor parts inside the box supplied by others, and it could be that LG is a supplier of one deemed a problem--but that does not fit the public statements very well.

Boeing's public statements have included mention of tightened operating parameters implement in the chargers. They have also mentioned changes to the batteries themselves, and to the monitoring and control of their manufacture.

All this is in addition to the more widely discussed containment aspects of the changes.

Does your rumor add any detail as to what the controller is alleged to have been doing wrong?

Putt 19th June 2013 22:52

787 Battery
 
This is speculation, not rumor...overcharging the battery could be the problem, meaning the charger is not wellregulated.
One rumor is that a contribyting factor was altitude...hard to imagine that.
Li Ion batteries have been known to overheat, I don'y know if later technologies have eliminated that characteristic.
You have to rely on the engineering guys and the FMEA ( Failure Mode Effects and Analysis ) and testing.

poorjohn 20th June 2013 16:08


overcharging the battery could be the problem, meaning the charger is not wellregulated.
The charging system probably needed better feedback from the battery pack, overlooked or denied due to increased cost and complexity outweighing need. I think (strictly from reading this thread) that's been fixed.

ATC Watcher 24th June 2013 05:13

rumour of a 787 with brakes problems grounded in the US ? anyone with more details ?

cwatters 24th June 2013 08:58

Boeing 787 Dreamliner diverted due to brakes | News24

Los Angeles - A Boeing 787 Dreamliner jet was forced to make an emergency landing during an internal US flight on Sunday, due to a problem with its brake system, United Airlines said in a statement.

continues.

Yankee Whisky 24th June 2013 11:32

Am I serious ? You bet'ye !
 


Bustre....Yeah, I've always considered airborne electrical fires trivial
too!!


Are you serious?
A real fire, yes and false fire warnings are indeed to be considered serious as well IF they repeat themselves. One offs are analysed as to cause and a fix made right after the incident occurrence. This fix may be written up in a Technical Note or AD if there is a suspected possibility of recurrence on other aircraft.
Is every false incident, therefore, of importance to discussions on this website ? Not if everyone were to start reporting them...................this site would run out of space ! False fire warnings occur quite frequently.:O

FlightPathOBN 24th June 2013 16:02

Seems like there is also a prevailing oil pressure issue as well...

Poor United....what is this...4 United 787's in a week?
Edit: just checked...United has 6 787's.

Second United Dreamliner diverted with oil-related problem

"United flight 125 from London's Heathrow airport to Houston diverted to Newark, New Jersey due to a low oil indication, United said in an emailed statement. The airline said the aircraft landed normally and without incident around 2:15 p.m. local time and customers were put on other flights."

FlightPathOBN 24th June 2013 22:01

I suppose one should add the other 787 issues in the last 2 weeks besides United's..

Last week, a Denver to Tokyo flight was diverted because of an oil indicator light. On June 12, an All Nippon Airways Dreamliner flight was canceled when an engine would not start. On the previous day, a Japan Airlines flight to Singapore returned to Tokyo because of a deicing problem.

So deicing, brakes, oil indicator, wont start...

How many flights vs flights with issues?

For me, there is a difference between having certain bugs with a new launch aircraft, and having 50% of the flights diverting due to issues.
Somehow, that is a bit outside of the 10 -6 SMS probablity.

derbyshire 27th June 2013 17:14

Teething Problems?
 
Gentlemen, don't you think that the 787's problems fade into insignificance when compared to the horrendous uncontained turbine burst of the A380's engine(s)?? Yet that subject seems no longer to be mentioned. How come?

FlightPathOBN 27th June 2013 17:36

I believe that the cause of that engine failure has been determined and fixed.

Dont both the A380 and B787 use RR Trent engines?

ironbutt57 27th June 2013 18:18

Several airplanes use Trent engines..

FlightPathOBN 27th June 2013 18:22

I know, but I dont understand the derbyshire post regarding the A380 engine issue...

slf4life 27th June 2013 23:58

A380 Engine
 
True, the incident was 'spectacular' by comparison, but that's where the comparison ends. It was an engine failure, the cause identified and fixed by the engine manufacturer.
It is quite a different thing to have an airframe experience a seeming myriad of disparate systems issues requiring diversion. I won't speculate, but in my mind, as a potential pax, I start thinking overall QC. For damn sure Boeing can't be happy.


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