Just been on a volcanologist site, can't see many posts about how you should fly an ILS, strange that. I know that when most of you button pushers recieve your licence it instantly turns you into a world expert on any subject, but maybe you should let the EXPERTS deal with this one for a change, hope springs eternal!

airspace closed 2000nm from the core.....whole thing is fast becoming a circus as the boffins decide what actually defines contamination re safety of flight.
In the mean time, businesses are dying, perishable goods are rotting, passengers stranded, train, road and rail clogged, airline jobs at risk plus a raft of ancilary jobs.....unless the eu give airlines a helping hand which I doubt they will, there are operators out there that are going to sink while the what defines contamination debate rolls on. Airlines have given subtle hints like BA, LUFT that their test flights went without a hitch but have their hands tied.

Liam548

What was the density of the ash cloud that the BA B747 flew through?

We won't be getting the data because NATS, have completed their Pavlovian "Volcanic ash means we must close all airspace just like in the simulator" response, have retired for a cup of coffee and a congratulatory slap on the back. Only now are they realising how dreadfully exposed they are in having no idea whatsoever as to what would be considered 'safe' levels of ash which allow them to reopen the airspace.

It does.

It's the choice of going bankrupt now, with equipment ready to go when ash disperses, financing becomes available and new airlines arise from the ashes of old, or going bankrupt a few months later with equipment that no money will help get airborne.

Of course that as a pilot I have a vested interest of going via the first path and my interests are at odds with airline CEO. (S)he can find as well or even better paid job at any other industry, I can not.

Company that changes top brass rapidly, imports them and rewards short term financial results only, can not expect them to have long term company benefit as their top priority.

NATS have precisely followed the rules, regulations and the LAWS governing this situation, as have all the other European ANSPs. They're squeaky clean.

BD

It's interesting that NATS effectively closed the airspace by imposing a 'zero traffic flow rate' ,without any consultation with any other Air Traffic providers. Also, no restrictions imposed by the CAA.

I wonder about the first brave pilot who suggested that you could really fly into clouds or in IMC an hundred years ago. If there was a PPRuNe back then, what would the reactions have been?

-LUNACY
-MOODY FLEW THROUGH ASH AND PLUMMETED
-METEOROLIGIST DON'T TELL YOU HOW TO FLY, SO DON'T TELL THEM YOU CAN FLY THROUGH WEATHER
-ETC.
-ETC.

Let me put this in perspective.

If we fly you tomorrow to Benidorm or Greece for a hundred and fifty quid, will you cheerfully cough up Five hundred quid in three months time when we discover that transporting you to your holiday destination ruined our engines?

Didn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paidworker http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/viewpost.gif
Why is the G- CALM report being hidden and kept out of the public domain , one of the only ( to my knowledge ) official test flights with measuring equipment on board.

Because it is written in scientific language which requires to be interpreted correctly. Releasing it to people who don't understand it nor the context it covers merely continues the uninformed speculation.
Hopefully once our 'leaders' get their act together and schedule a programme of scientific testing we might begin to learn some more facts. Unfortunately I don't see any one single body having the accountability across Europe.

BD

Yeah I can see how " a "bum sucking moment at 5000 feet" would be above my head.

Im sorry but I do not buy any of that , either something happened on that official test flight or it did not . The fact that the G-CALM report is being surpressed tells me I want to see it and should be able to make up my own mind.

Sunfish, will you say the same in two weeks time, when we are still groundend because of a CAVOK ashcloud?

Could you point me to the LAWS requiring you to impose zero flow rate when ash is present, or define what concentration of ash triggers that zero rate? Or more importantly define what concentration will permit you to increase that flow rate fom zero?

Well, actually CEOs are measured on how the Airline is expected to perform over the LONG term, not the short term.

Ofcourse, earnings releases may change the expectations of investors, but it is still looking at LONG term effects not short term ones. Maybe a course in Finance 101 would be in order.

Now the Politicians, on the other hand, that many here expound for their long-term vision in "snatching us all from the clutches of death", only see as far as the next election.

Hence, unless votes may be picked up by publicly arguing for opening the airspace it will stay shut until after the elections. Now if public sentiment swings, politicians will be falling over eachother to open the airspace no matter what the risks are (albeit these will be cleverly shifted to airlines as we've seen in Austria) :D

Bit of a change in the eruption this morning, whether it lasts or not.
Significantly reduced ash plume (although ash is falling in the immediate vicinty). However a helicopter flyby this morning reported the flow of lava, which may indicate a change for the better.

Webcam:
Eyjafjallajökull frá Hvolsvelli

Well, off to work, apparently flying today :ok:

Everything you need to know, right there ! :ugh:

As someone said above...

"
Clearly, it is vital to know the relative constituents of a plume and, more importantly, their concentrations over the area under consideration. If it is largely grit and silcon affecting the UK, which I suspect, then there should be no impediment to re-starting operations. Operations are routinely carried out in much worse conditions world-wide in, for example, the middle east when sand storms can reduce visibilty to 600 m. -a "contaminant" concentration hundreds of time worse than prevails over Europe today.
If there are high levels of soot in the sample over the area in question then urgent research needs to be carried out by the engine manufacturers to agree a protocol with regulators and governments.
"

Someone who thinks we are dealing with "grit", "silicon" and/or "soot" doesn't inspire much confidence as an opinion former.

See public comment on it here BBC News - Royal Navy ships to return Britons stranded by volcano
"a Met Office plane encountered dangerous levels of ash when it went through the ash cloud on Sunday.

Dr Guy Gratton, head of the Facility of Airborne Atmospheric Measurement, a joint body belonging to the Met Office and the Natural Environment Research Council, said that "it's still quite a complex mixture of clear air and very worrying - but invisible -volcanic ash at all sorts of heights"."

BD

[ANECDOTE]
I took my retired pilot's torch into my retired pilot's garden last night in Sussex and was surprised that I could smell that familiar Keflavik water smell in Sussex. Shining my (RP's) torch up into the clear night sky I could see why. Loads of it. I was happy with my position. [END ANECDOTE]

BA announcing no damage to their jolly in the 747. Thanks lads but.....


Good to see "INDEPENDENT" flight testing are taking place by BA. I say in jest.

ITS A STUNT !!!! Having the BA CEO up there throwing his weight around,!! I kid you not, we are entering possibly a very worrying stage of this saga

If restrictions are removed due to pressure from a commercial entity such as BA, KLM and the likes, as opposed to an unbiased party, this will be a sorry sorry chapter in aviation history.

If due to this volcanic ash, an accident or incident were to take place, this would be one accident or incident too many.

Highlow, the thing one has to wonder about is what the engines would say if the crew flies IFR instead of VFR?