Not at all gashcan, but you post made me think about the wider implications of testing, tests for one industry where safety is a factor should mean tests for all industries where safety is a factor.

You are quite right and I wholly agree with you.

I fully expect breath testing to be introduced into my job (UK NHS Ambo) within the next few years, albeit probably on a random basis, the culture of blame we live in will make sure of that.

Just before everyone provides every link to the articles, do yourselves a favour and just go to the Google News website and type 'easyjet' into the search field and hey presto, you will have links to every report published on the internet in chronological order.

Whilst the subject is one that obviously makes many of us uncomfortable and it was first revealed exclusively here on PPRuNe, almost eight hours before easyJet made an announcement, it serves little purpose to try and shoot the messenger. Obviously, easyJet have known about this incident since Saturday and it would appear that they have had their hand forced by the rumour that was first posted here.

What we should be avoiding is petty ideas about breath testing before every flight. I personally would find it offensive if my employer didn't trust me to turn up to work drug and alcohol free. The sensationalism used by the media in an attempt to highlight their fantasy that because of two recent court cases and now todays new revelation as somehow being indicative of a 'problem' is obviously just the news editors way of generating interest in their stories.

Can anyone provide any idea on the number of all commercial passenger flights originating in the UK and also flights operated by UK pilots worldwide per annum? The two cases that went to court recently were over incidents that occurred long before the court cases themselves. How many incidents of this kind have we had in the last 12 months? How many flights are we talking about? Do the maths and at least show yourselves to be slightly more intelligent than the subnormal luvvies and drama queens who make out that this is some kind of a huge problem. It is just the media luvvies making mountains out of molehills.

Every case where it is highlighted that a pilot has been caught over the limit is bad news and the media love to have a go at pilots because in reality they do probably envy our supposedly glamorous jobs and lifestyles. For those of us in the 'know' we can just roll our eyes and confirm to ourselves that those media luvvies really do live in a fantasy world. What we need to be sure of, and I'm sure that the vast majority of us are responsible enough to make sure that we will never become one of those who break the rules and bring the medias attention to this miniscule problem.

We all know that if we are impaired in any way, in fact we are not even supposed to work when we have even a simple common cold, then we call in sick. Those who may be under the weather because of alcohol consumption are able to exercise their right to call in sick too. Their own shame and guilt in knowing that they probably shouldn't have imbibed so much at the time is often enough to prevent it happening again. In this particular case, and I am speculating right now, it would appear that the authorities were tipped off by someone. Is that right or wrong? With random screening there is no guarantee that a pilot over the limit would be caught because the numbers are in fact so miniscule. Draw your own conclusions about the methods used to single this particular pilot out.

In conclusion, this incident was first reported here on PPRuNe. That in itself appears to have forced easyJets hand in admitting publicly that the incident in fact was true. You can't keep something like this a secret, no matter how embarrassing it may be to a company and to the huge majority of us in the profession. At least we can discuss it and show the media luvvies that we are aware that a tiny proportion of our colleagues will have human failings. What we shouldn't be doing is giving the media ammunition with stupid suggestions that we should just be tested before every flight. They're just story tellers, we're not... at least I hope that we can discuss this as fellow professionals without descending to the medias gutter levels.

Just to clear up any confusion, it was my post that started the discussion about breath testing (although it did say that I disagree with it, what I really wanted was informed discussion to shut the R5 phone in bods up !) and since reading Danny's post I have chosen to delete it.

Danny clearly does not want the thread to go that way and I would ask that we leave it there, as a courtesy to Capt PpRuNe.

'Drunk'
 

Well done Danny.
Just a point that bothers me; the Biased, (Bigotted, Brusque, Beligerent, whatever you choose) Broadcasting Corp have all day been referring to the 'Drunk' pilot. Just what quialifies as drunk? Where does the transition from sober to drunk and back to sober occur? I called and challenged them on the point and they obligingly changed the reports to 'allegedly drunk'. (on 5live at least)
We gave them the story so have no-one to blame but ourselves but I do wish more of us would complain about such inaccurate and biased reporting. To report that she failed a breath test would have been accurate but far less inflamatory. Which is, of course, why they used the term 'Drunk'!

How does the song go? "PPRuNe is all around you, you can feel it in the air".

Its in all the papers this morning, as far as I could tell, and as Danny says it no doubt came from here. THAT, dare I say, is when we have to be circumspect and unspeculative - just to save the whole industry being thought of as incapable. And wouldn't the press love that thought. :p

This is a Rumour forum!!
 

What part of that is not clear to most of you?

Unplugged started a thread based on a rumour. Perfectly acceptable. For so many ppruners to attack him in such a way is sad (no names mentioned: CaptainProp & Sparkle!!)

Sort your lives out. If you don't like hearing bad news, perhaps you should stay away from this forum!

Am I alone in finding it additionally irritating that all the tabloid coverage has focused so heavily on the fact that this pilot is female? If it had been a man it certainly wouldn't have made the front page of Metro, and it's hard to imagine a banner headline saying "man pilot fails breath test", while all the headlines mention her sex in this case. Perhaps the tabloids assume men are pi$$ed all the time, but it's unusual for a woman.

Incidentally I wonder if there's some confusion as to legal limits reflected in the coverage. In the UK as I understand it the driving limit is 0.35 in breath but 0.80 in blood - perhaps some of the comparisons here are confusing the two.

Just to point out that I edited the title of this thread from 'easyJet - pilot drunk' to 'easyJet - pilot tested over the limit?'. It doesn't help us if our own colleagues are too stupid to realise that what they publish on here is usually picked up by the media and if one pilot calls another pilot a 'drunk' when in fact they meant 'tested positive for alcohol', then perhaps we shouldn't expect any better from the media.

Why should easyJet have made this public. Surely they have a duty of care to their passengers and staff to investigate and take appropriate action, not to release a press statement each time somebody makes a misguided error of judgment. Danny I’m surprised you are proud to have a fellow pilot’s future debated in a kangaroo court style without the full facts…

As an aside, remember there is always someone in the World who doesn't like you:( ..... give them the slightest opportunity to "get you" and they probably will

and example ..... a few days R&R in Cancun, A Hotel staff member who clearly didn't like the look of me although I have no idea why:confused: .... I remember he dressed in a very odd style(to me at least) and maybe I frowned whenever I saw him?

anyway, checked out and waiting outside for the coach to the airport ..... there was my "Friend" looking on and then talking seriously to another staff member ..... a moment later I was asked to return to checkout to confirm I had payed my bill :{ (with those around me thinking I was a "Career Criminal")

a few minutes later ... my Inocence confirmed and back to the Coach ..... with my new "friend" growling at me from the hotel lobby :ugh:

I've been always wondering why airline rules stipulating "no alcohol for a minimum of eight hours before reporting for duty"? It all depends what you drinking (two bottles of wisky or a glass of wine), who you are (45 kg female or 110 kg male), what's your experience (if you drink very regularly in large qtys it causes much less effect on you), and finally it depends of individual body's metabolism.
Our airline stipulating min 48 (fourty eight!) hours before the flight and that's our CAA request :}

I believe it would be fair to measure/regulate/prescribe max amount of promilles only rather than stupid time period limits...

Will the FO also face disciplinary action as a result of this incident?

It is alledged that he smelt alcohol on the pilots breath but failed to report it to his employer/authorities.

Just a thought....

Perhaps the FO *did* report it to the authorities....?

Not sure what the initially stated promille figure means but the UK limits for flying are:

9mg (road 35) alcohol per 100ml breath.
20mg (road 80) alc per 100ml blood.
27mg (road 107) alc per 100ml urine.

Anyone know how the promille converts?

From CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu....ap/index.html



'Drunk' easyJet pilot suspended
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 Posted: 1245 GMT (2045 HKT)



BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- An easyJet pilot has been suspended while the airline investigates whether she showed up for a flight drunk, the company says.

The pilot had been scheduled to fly a 6:45 a.m. flight on January 8 from Berlin's Schoenefeld airport to Basel, Switzerland, but was "prevented from flying duty on suspicion of being over the alcohol limit," spokesman Steve Eisenberg said Wednesday.

The airline instead found another pilot, and the flight left at 7:09 a.m. local time, he said.

The pilot has been suspended while the airline conducts an internal investigation, he said.

British law requires that pilots not consume alcohol for a minimum of 8 hours before reporting for duty.

London-based easyJet's regulations are stricter, banning all alcohol 10 hours before flight time and limiting the number of drinks pilots can have in the 14 hours before that, Eisenberg said.

The company has 1,081 pilots, he said.

"We have never before encountered (an incident) such as this. Should the allegations be proved, easyJet would be disappointed and distressed," Eisenberg said.

Schoenefeld airport refused comment.

In Germany, at least, if you fail a breath test then the cops take you to a doctor for a blood test. (We have a friend who does this work at all sorts of odd hours; it's a nice little earner and she gets to meet lots of British soldiers.) So you are going to get nailed on the basis of a blood test in any case.

I was getting a lift in our flight surgeon's car, back to my compound in Nigeria. There was a stack of blank FAA or maybe DOT or DEA or whatever it was, drug test reporting forms there, so that I looked one over. Scary stuff! Either you fill it out, fail the test and you are toast or you refuse to sign, fail the test and you are toast... there is no clever out if you have been misbehaving. If your number comes up for that random test you had better be clean.

As noted, yes, the world has changed. 20 years ago most of us were hooting with the owls before going out to fly with the eagles. But that was then and this is now.... Either you hang up the headset and bore everyone with tales of how it was 'when I' or else you adapt to the way it is now.

There have been quite a few stories about the barman (who else, really?) blowing the whistle on his customers, come to that.

Part of the reason I used to drink is not to notice what was going on around me. That might well include some little pr*ck deciding to get even with me by dropping a dime. Heck, some companies reward whistle-blowing!

Beanbag, re the attention and the pilot being female. I must say when I heard the headline about a pilot over the limit I didnt think twice about it, but then when the story went on to talk about a female captain I did stop what I was doing to pay more attention. For me it's the first incident invloving a female member of the flight crew that I have heard of.

I wonder what the real story is this time, like the BA guys you always hear later who shopped who and what it was all about, love triangles etc etc....

FS

What do people think the correct course of action for the first officer should have been? I presume he would have tried the quiet word in the ear that perhaps the Captain took a sickie today. Or perhaps he would have been frightened to do even that?

What I cannot understand is how this woman, who must have really worked hard to become a captain, and must have shown real conviction in a male-dominated environment, suddenly lost it all to a few lousy drinks.... what was she thinking? Where did all her conviction go???

The mind boggles... Also, this is REALLY bad press for female pilots, after they built up quite a 'good' reputation over the past couple of years.

It's not just the airline industry that is suffering from this type of regulation.

Banks have Basel II, other companies have to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley and some of the other legislation floating around is beyond belief too. In reality, will it make a real difference?

As a professional in another field, I have deep sympathy for airline crews, who it would appear now cannot enjoy a normal life and who will be persecuted for reporting with a level of alcohol, that frankly, probably would not affect their judgement and that is difficult to judge without the aid of testing apparatus.

How many crashes, on scheduled airline flights, have been caused by pilots under the influence of alcohol?

Unfortunately, once legislation is passed, it will be enforced. i'm just awaiting BJCCs comment :-)

I have been flying as a pax since 1976 and do about 90 sectors a year. I don't feel any safer as a result of this new approach.

I wish I could influence a change, but will have to settle for expressing empathy for this lady (if the allegations are true.) I am sure that ATPLs would not report if they felt they were endangering their passengers and crew.