China seeks European approval of C919
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I’d rather fly a C919 seeing how long they’ve been testing and developing it and knowing China’s attitude to risk than anything coming from Boeing in the last decade. So good for them and best of luck! Airbus needs a bit of decent competition these days.
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11576287)
I’d rather fly a C919 seeing how long they’ve been testing and developing it and knowing China’s attitude to risk than anything coming from Boeing in the last decade. So good for them and best of luck! Airbus needs a bit of decent competition these days.
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11576287)
I’d rather fly a C919 seeing how long they’ve been testing and developing it and knowing China’s attitude to risk than anything coming from Boeing in the last decade. So good for them and best of luck! Airbus needs a bit of decent competition these days.
Do you understand the error in reasoning that you are making? (I share your disappointment in Boeing's decline). |
Forgive me for maybe having misunderstood it, but it was my impression that the C919 is certified to standards which are non-compliant with those of the FAA and EASA, meaning it won’t be certifiable within those jurisdictions.
Could be that the CAAC are testing the waters, wanting EASA to quantify the delta and a provide a path to compliance. If the aircraft can be made EASA compliant, then it should certifiable by the FAA as well. If it can be certified; if COMAC get their after-market support in order; if it comes with acceptable performance and maintenance guarantees; if it’s offered at 75% the price of a Max or Neo, then it would stand a decent chance of enjoying some success outside of China. Strategically it’s obviously a whole different ballgame, as it’s not really in Europe's interest to finance China’s ambitions for the C929, as well as the eventual C939 and C949 models. On the other hand, China is projected to account for 25% of sales of all commercial aircraft seating +100 passengers in the next 20 years, a demand their local industry has no chance at coming near meeting. It’ll be a delicate balancing act. |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 11576754)
"Just because someone else is doing it then it must be better."
Do you understand the error in reasoning that you are making? (I share your disappointment in Boeing's decline). |
Originally Posted by SMT Member
(Post 11576804)
Forgive me for maybe having misunderstood it, but it was my impression that the C919 is certified to standards which are non-compliant with those of the FAA and EASA, meaning it won’t be certifiable within those jurisdictions.
Could be that the CAAC are testing the waters, wanting EASA to quantify the delta and a provide a path to compliance. If the aircraft can be made EASA compliant, then it should certifiable by the FAA as well. If it can be certified; if COMAC get their after-market support in order; if it comes with acceptable performance and maintenance guarantees; if it’s offered at 75% the price of a Max or Neo, then it would stand a decent chance of enjoying some success outside of China. Strategically it’s obviously a whole different ballgame, as it’s not really in Europe's interest to finance China’s ambitions for the C929, as well as the eventual C939 and C949 models. On the other hand, China is projected to account for 25% of sales of all commercial aircraft seating +100 passengers in the next 20 years, a demand their local industry has no chance at coming near meeting. It’ll be a delicate balancing act. |
Well **** if the FAA standard is what you’re after then what are you worried about? The 737 Max is a debacle beyond comprehension and perfectly approved by the FAA.
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11576924)
Well **** if the FAA standard is what you’re after then what are you worried about? The 737 Max is a debacle beyond comprehension and perfectly approved by the FAA.
I have some first hand experience with the CAA level of certification and oversight. NO WAY I'm getting on a C919. |
The C919 isn’t designed or built according to 1960s technology so it’s a moot point. I won’t fly the Max as it has a PROVEN record of literal disaster.
But you seem to be unable to separate two distinct thoughts: 1) the Max is a disaster. 2) this has NO bearing the C919. They are almost entirely unrelated thoughts. Point blank refusing to fly an airliner certified by a different countries regulatory authority without any evidence of malpractice/increased risk seems a lot like xenophobia to me. |
So it might get certified. Possible as they build western certified A321neos including their wings already.
Then european airlines will be expected to order it? |
Having been directly involved with tc and stc with the FAA from an engineering and testing perspective this aircraft will take many years before it is approved. I have seen the CAAC conformity processes, while I'm not saying it's lacks credibility it's certainly not as thorough as EASA or the FAA.
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11576970)
Point blank refusing to fly an airliner certified by a different countries regulatory authority without any evidence of malpractice/increased risk seems a lot like xenophobia to me.
As for the A320 series assembled in China - you can bet there are Airbus people doing the final inspections and QA. |
Originally Posted by SMT Member
(Post 11576804)
Forgive me for maybe having misunderstood it, but it was my impression that the C919 is certified to standards which are non-compliant with those of the FAA and EASA, meaning it won’t be certifiable within those jurisdictions.
If it can be certified; if COMAC get their after-market support in order; if it comes with acceptable performance and maintenance guarantees; if it’s offered at 75% the price of a Max or Neo, then it would stand a decent chance of enjoying some success outside of China. Even if China can get a Western regulator to certify it, I don’t think there is going to be any appetite among established airlines to buy in. The Sukoi regional jet is a salient lesson in the dangers of “problematic” manufacturers. |
The C919 will eventually be certified in the rest of the world. It’s just a matter of time. Maybe a long time but it will occur. And China will use it as a learning curve for the C929. They have to start somewhere and the ARJ-21 was their 21st Century starting point. Learning to build and certify airliners doesn’t happen overnight. But when China is wants to do something; they do it. Might take a long time but they’ll get there.
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Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11577826)
But when China is wants to do something; they do it. Might take a long time but they’ll get there.
The one thing the 919 does have in its corner is that 50%+ of its parts and components are imported from existing internationally certified vendors. However, even with that positive point I seriously doubt COMAC will expand beyond a limited provider in the global market based on my experience with the CAAC and other national aircraft producers. |
I agree with you on that point; even if COMAC wanted to compete with Boeing or Airbus it will take decades to become a significant player.
I wonder if their strategic aim is actually to just provide for their domestic carriers needs alone? |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11577108)
So it might get certified. Possible as they build western certified A321neos including their wings already.
Then european airlines will be expected to order it? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO38MOCW8AAlaRK.jpg This is a world away from locating design, production, assembly, test flight and certification in China. |
Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11576920)
You are putting a lot of words in my mouth. I never said anything approaching what you postulate.
I’d rather fly a C919 seeing how long they’ve been testing and developing it and knowing China’s attitude to risk than anything coming from Boeing in the last decade. So good for them and best of luck! Airbus needs a bit of decent competition these days. |
Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
(Post 11577936)
I agree with you on that point; even if COMAC wanted to compete with Boeing or Airbus it will take decades to become a significant player.
I wonder if their strategic aim is actually to just provide for their domestic carriers needs alone? I once asked a Chinese "old friend" who lived through Mao's Cultural Revolution what his thought were on that period. His response was: "We Chinese have thousands of year of history, the Cultural Revolution was nothing". Per |
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