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-   -   Delta A330-300 Lands Short in Amsterdam (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/650748-delta-a330-300-lands-short-amsterdam.html)

JuniorMan 12th Jan 2023 18:28

Delta A330-300 Lands Short in Amsterdam
 
Interesting report coming from EHAM. Link

ATC Watcher 12th Jan 2023 19:38

The first questions that come to my mind are : Why use a short 22 runway when you ahave the main runway 24 with 3000 m and a wind 240 Gusting 40 Kts ? Or was 24 closed ? Or did ATC sent an A330 to Runway 22 due to noise abatment?

Track 12th Jan 2023 19:51

Not unusual to have 22 as landing and RWY 24 as main TO rwy in these conditions. Very rare that you get 24 even in extreme winds. Approach for RWY 22 lets you fly over downtown Amsterdam so not a noise abatement reason.

( And 240/40 on a rwy 22 is not that bad actually, 15 kts crosswind...)

Avman 12th Jan 2023 19:55

I don't think 24 is available as a landing runway for heavies. Back in the day I remember watching commuters make an approach on 27 and swing visually to 24 (shorter taxi time to their gates). I personally have never seen a heavy use 24 for landing. In fact, I don't think 24 even has an ILS.

Coastrider26 12th Jan 2023 20:22

Rwy 24 has no ILS to my knowledge. But I have done an ILS27 with a break off to runway 24 with a 747

avionimc 12th Jan 2023 20:56


Originally Posted by Coastrider26 (Post 11365096)
Rwy 24 has no ILS to my knowledge. But I have done an ILS27 with a break off to runway 24 with a 747

They all have RNP approaches with LPV minima.

V_2 12th Jan 2023 21:57


Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 11365068)
The first questions that come to my mind are : Why use a short 22 runway when you ahave the main runway 24 with 3000 m and a wind 240 Gusting 40 Kts ? Or was 24 closed ? Or did ATC sent an A330 to Runway 22 due to noise abatment?

Also if you use R24 for arrivals, what runway are you going to use for the departures? R24’s 3000m runway is better utilised to get the long haul guys away

Consol 12th Jan 2023 22:28

Landed on 22 in an A320, no big deal in a 330. Given that it has an ILS the real issue is how come they touched down so early. No glideslope GPWS?

sleeper 13th Jan 2023 08:32

They missed the threshold by a few yards.
 
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2a13d63d18.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a445bc8112.jpg

swh 13th Jan 2023 09:21

Just a ploy by Delta legal to avoid paying landing fees.

MATELO 13th Jan 2023 10:20

Looks from those pictures just one set of wheels hit the ground.

Equivocal 13th Jan 2023 10:24

I think you'll find that the two pics each show one of the MLG tracks. Looks like the aircraft was slightly left of the centreline.

Uplinker 13th Jan 2023 10:54

That looks like an extremely high precision touch-down, almost exactly where the threshold starts. But wrong technique fella !

Or maybe they were on the glide but a gust pushed them or dropped them down onto the threshold ?

vilas 13th Jan 2023 14:53

What's called brick one landing but ended being brick zero landing.

Iceman49 14th Jan 2023 19:43

Flying into AMS prior to 2014, when 22 was in use, we used to circle to runway 24 in the 330.

krismiler 14th Jan 2023 21:59

Given the waterlogged state of the undershoot area, they we’re lucky the gear didn’t dig in any deeper and end up being torn off when it met the tarmac. Obvious heavy rain that day so the weather conditions during the approach come into question, ie wind shear or misjudging the last few seconds with visibility lost in battering rain.

zerograv 14th Jan 2023 23:40

lucky indeed ...

Given that the main landing gear on the 330 is tilted upwards when the aircraft is airborne, I would hazard a guess that what contacted the soft ground, just before the runway, were the wheels of the rear axle.
When the wheels of the rear axle came in contact with the runway edge, this would have caused a bit of a violent untilting of main gear, slamming the wheels of the front axle on the runway.

Potential to damage the gear interface unit, which can cause the system to think that the aircraft is in the air, making brakes and reverse unavailable, leaving the crew with nothing available to stop the aircraft after the touchdown. Iberia in Quito comes to mind.

safetypee 15th Jan 2023 09:45

From an on-line AIP, runway 22 appears to have a single PAPI (3deg, 62ft), but no specific installation for long body aircraft.
This appears to to be the situation for all runways at EHAM; is this correct?

Runway 22 appears to have the lowest threshold crossing height of all of the runways - 62ft, agin is this correct?
Assuming this value to be eye height, then what would the wheel height over threshold be for an A330 (+/- wheel bogie tilt)?

Also, that runways 18 C and 22 have no hard-surface prior the the threshold markings;- deduced from online photo maps; is this correct?

https://eaip.lvnl.nl/2023-01-12-AIRA...dex-en-GB.html

Search EHAM, index of airports, EHAM AD 2

the_stranger 15th Jan 2023 10:19


Originally Posted by safetypee (Post 11366653)
Also, that runways 18 C and 22 have no hard-surface prior the the threshold markings;- deduced from online photo maps; is this correct?

https://eaip.lvnl.nl/2023-01-12-AIRA...dex-en-GB.html

Search EHAM, index of airports, EHAM AD 2

The area in front of 22 used to be concrete,back in the olden days. Rumour has it the current grassy area is just a few cm's thick with the old concrete just below it.

Saab Dastard 15th Jan 2023 12:32

Yes, there was concrete before the threshold as recently as 2008 (removed sometime between 2008 and 2012), as it's visible on google earth historical imagery. It doesn't provide any indication as to the depth of soil, however.


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