It's by no means unknown, and has been for decades, that where the longest-haul flights of the era get a delay, particularly at the remote spoke end of their network, you get a 24-hour delay. I certainly recall LHR-LAX in the 1970s, where a fuellers sudden strike at Heathrow meant after just a couple of hours that the crew were no longer in hours, and it was held over to the next day. Such is life on long haul, as those who have long experience of it know only too well. It's one of those costs of (normally) being able to shoot from one end of the world to the other.
Credit to Qantas for running both aircraft the following day, and not just rebooking everyone squashed in to other flights and carriers, which many others will do. |
I had c.24hr delay with Air Canada out of MAN quite a few years ago. Aircraft pushed back and a problem materialised, so back to the gate. Engineers spent a couple of hours looking at it, and thought they'd fixed it. Pushed back a second time, the problem reoccurred. They spent another hour looking at it before calling it a day. Everyone back to a hotel, and we eventually got away the following morning.
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Originally Posted by Pinkman
(Post 11322785)
if you are going to have a 17 hour ULH flight that turns into a 37 hour journey (40 hours + door to door) you’re going to have to get sharper with contingency planning; and from the replies it looks like spares inventory and crewing need to be looked at too. It’s been interesting- thanks everyone.
Providing dedicated standby crews at outstations, by perhaps increasing slip durations beyond the required minimum so you have more than minimum crew on site, will cause the bean counters will have apoplexy (due increased the increased fleet pilot and cabin crew establishment you'll need to cover it, plus hotel costs, plus allowances, plus plus etc...). They'll look at cost v benefit and say "no thanks, we'll accept the odd delay". As others have said there's nothing really extra extra special about the QF ULH LHR-PER flight that hasn't applied to many a Long Haul sector over the years...there's no magic solution if things or people go T U, and regardless of contingency plans, be they sharp or blunt, you sometimes can't avoid substantial delays. |
Originally Posted by Hartington
(Post 11322979)
It's all very well suggesting ULH should not operate from somewhere like Perth but even when Sydney/London starts Sydeney might well be the Qantas home base but Heathrow is an outstation. The likelihood is that any ULH will use an outstation.
LHR might very well be an outstation for Qantas but the availability of parts and engineering services dwarfs Perth. There is no comparison. |
I was on that flight with my wife so let me inform you that after a 20 hour delay QF 10 did not take off at 8:30 but 9:40 so a further over hour delay making another hour in the aircraft. Yes we were business class. I personally found the cabin crew very friendly and helpful during the 17 hour flight
My wife had discussions with the cabin crew who told her the initial problem was a major fault in the air conditioning but that then blew the pilot rostering, resulting in a substantial delay getting the four pilots necessary for the flight. Now in Oz many people tell me that Qantas suffers many long delays and cancellations. |
Waiting for a flight to Africa once at. Paris CDG.
Capt and co-pilot emerge from the jetway screaming at one another and exit the lounge. Cabin attendants show up next. Aircraft ( B 747 named Big Boss ) is towed away. Turned out there had been a fist fight in the cockpit. Off to a very nice hotel. ( luckily we were sitting with the country’s ambassador to the UN and he wanted us to go to to the same hotel as himself.) After a very pleasant evening we departed the next afternoon with an Air France crew. Just as an aside it was also the day that Sodamn Insane invaded Kuwait. |
Perth is not a little GA FBO. There are plenty of wide bodies fly into it not just C150's, which a lot of you have us believe. QF flies a mixture of wide and narrow bodies from SYD and MEL and same to south east asia. I have flown both 737 and 747 SYD-PER depending on time of day. So I would imagine PER has a large inventory of spares. It's ridiculous to think that every spare needs to be flown from Seattle every time a boeing goes tech. The spares are made in factories all around the world and even so there will be spares locally at most large airports.
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11326038)
Perth is not a little GA FBO. There are plenty of wide bodies fly into it not just C150's, which a lot of you have us believe. QF flies a mixture of wide and narrow bodies from SYD and MEL and same to south east asia. I have flown both 737 and 747 SYD-PER depending on time of day. So I would imagine PER has a large inventory of spares. It's ridiculous to think that every spare needs to be flown from Seattle every time a boeing goes tech. The spares are made in factories all around the world and even so there will be spares locally at most large airports.
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Originally Posted by 717tech
(Post 11326060)
A Qatar B777 went tech in PER last week. It was mentioned on social media that it was due to a cracked windscreen, and the replacement part arrived on the next days scheduled service. So, it needs to be understood that a spare pool of parts wont always save the day. An alternative would be to have a spare Aircraft at each port. That's not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11326038)
The spares are made in factories all around the world and even so there will be spares locally at most large airports.
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11326038)
It's ridiculous to think that every spare needs to be flown from Seattle every time a boeing goes tech. The spares are made in factories all around the world and even so there will be spares locally at most large airports.
Personally, twice upon a time .... 24 hour delay eastern seaboard of the US getting a small spare bit (Flight Deck display component) for a Boeing.....another time 48 hour plus delay on the west Coast (SFO to be exact) waiting for a spare for a fuel system component, again for a Boeing.... |
Even if you keep an extensive spares inventory at outstation, great chance it will not save the day for ULH. Troubleshooting the problem, getting the spare (which could be 30 min drive airside one way in large airports), replacement, testing, paperwork - and the crew is out of duty. The way to go almost bulletproof is to keep a hot standby aircraft for departure but if I am not mistaken only BA (and possibly AF) did it in JFK for Concord operation. It is simply way too expensive for the normal business.
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Originally Posted by CargoOne
(Post 11326437)
Even if you keep an extensive spares inventory at outstation, great chance it will not save the day for ULH. Troubleshooting the problem, getting the spare (which could be 30 min drive airside one way in large airports), replacement, testing, paperwork - and the crew is out of duty.
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Originally Posted by WHBM
(Post 11326484)
If I am not mistaken a windscreen is unlikely to crack on the ground, but would give trouble on the previous sector, likewise many other items. Reported directly, hopefully the engineer and likely parts will be awaiting the inbound arrival on stand.
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Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 11323184)
To reiterate the point megan made: how much are you prepared to pay for this increased inventory and crewing?
Providing dedicated standby crews at outstations, by perhaps increasing slip durations beyond the required minimum so you have more than minimum crew on site, will cause the bean counters will have apoplexy (due increased the increased fleet pilot and cabin crew establishment you'll need to cover it, plus hotel costs, plus allowances, plus plus etc...). They'll look at cost v benefit and say "no thanks, we'll accept the odd delay". As others have said there's nothing really extra extra special about the QF ULH LHR-PER flight that hasn't applied to many a Long Haul sector over the years...there's no magic solution if things or people go T U, and regardless of contingency plans, be they sharp or blunt, you sometimes can't avoid substantial delays. |
Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
(Post 11329127)
They will have PER based crews, not rocket science. I live in GLA Scotland and a friend of mine is QF cabin crew based at LHR. I’m sure there was a ton of staff at PER to their disposal. Bean counters can relax.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11329180)
Thanks again for your helpful insight into how airlines operate.
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Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 11326143)
24 hour delay eastern seaboard of the US getting a small spare bit (Flight Deck display component) for a Boeing.....another time 48 hour plus delay on the west Coast (SFO to be exact) waiting for a spare for a fuel system component, again for a Boeing.... |
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