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Quote:

Originally Posted by hikoushi (Post 11166543)

All very true but in a low-energy balked landing on one of the longer Airbii (I can speak to the 321) a rapid go-around rotation while the plane is still figuring out whether or not it can get out of ground effect yet, is a sure fire recipe for a tailstrike!

Bus is a shortened form of omnibus, which is already plural. Airbuses, if you please :8

Adjective. Singular. Ablative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A4 (Post 11167661)

Re Somotogravic Illusion….

A baulked landing from the flare DEMANDS and “appropriate” pitch attitude INITIALLY - typically <10° - due to the tailstike risk on a longer aircraft. The SOLE purpose of the manuouvre is to get the aircraft climbing again whilst minimising the risk of banging the tail. Once it’s evident that you’re safely away from terra firma (RA > 50’-80’) increase pitch to circa 15°/SRS and call “Go around flaps” to transition into the normal GA actions…because with TOGA and <10° pitch you’ll start to accelerate quite quickly. Rotation straight to 15° from the flare - particularly with engines still spooling from idle - would be “sub optimal” due to the initial low energy and high AoA. Maintaining and “appropriate pitch”, any sink should result in a brief touch and go…whereas 15° would result in a three pointer with the mains and tail……:\

One issue with a baulked landing / GA from the flare is the transition back out of FLARE mode (don’t know if A350 has this?) Single aisle Airbus wind on nose down trim during the flare to “force” the pilot to make an aft side stick input like on a “normal” aircraft. But if you then initiate a BL/GA, the aircraft can feel very nose heavy due to the trim input from FLARE mode…..give it a tug and…… bang. As you climb away the aircraft transitions back from FLARE mode to FLIGHT mode and the auto trim will wind the trim off again.

No doubt all come out in the report……easily done.

A4

The very unsophisticated (by todays standards) 757 and 767 would limit pitch attitude during the initial phases of an auto go around below a certain RA, forget what it is

If it was a manual GA flight director commands limited pitch attitude, in both of those scenarios the limiting was to avoid a tail strike

Quote:

Originally Posted by irpond (Post 11167766)

Adjective. Singular. Ablative.

Actually it's dative, here used in the sense of "for ..." (although the ablative takes the same form), and it's definitely plural (singular would be "omni").

I knew that classical education wouldn't be wasted. :O

Somatogravic illusion and baulked landing don't have any direct connection. Human ear will be what it is but the demons only come out when you violate the basic principle of instrument flying and exercise pitch without reference to PFD. The answer to that is definitely not to opt for a tail strike during baulked landing by rotating to 15° but fly only 10° of pitch initially but looking at the attitude indicator and then when climb is confirmed increase further to 15°. Airbus resists any pitch up that's not ordered by the side stick including the thrust weight couple. That's why it only pitches up 10° unlike say B737 which needs push more than pull. There's a tendency to rotate more to avoid second touchdown which can cause tail strike. We tend to forget that gear is the only part of the aircraft designed to take impact load and doesn't need protection but the tail does. So just hold 10° till climbing away then follow normal GA procedure of retracting flap and then gear.

Anyone still around with stretch DC8 -63 or so experience ..?
They can probably tell it as it was ... 2 stage rotation etc ..
And , do the bendy bus types have a squashable cake can under the rear fuselage ? A' La 767-300 etc .

rgds condor

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor17 (Post 11173735)

Yep pretty much two stage rotation, the horizon had a mark at 8 degrees. The DC8-63 had two takeoff flap settings, 12 and 23. At 12 degrees and high gross weights it really did not want to fly at 8 degrees so you had to “milk” it into the air as the struts extended with a rapidly approaching runway end. And bring it up to 15 degrees once off the runway. It did have a crushable tailskid cartridge which one Captain I flew with tested. Happy days.

I flew the stretched 8 for 5 years…rotate smoothly to 8 degrees, then once suitably clear of the ground pull up towards 15 degrees. Definitely a two stepped process.