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krismiller - There is a similar article in today´s Frankfurter Allgemeine ( one of the leading newspapers in the country ), right now Condor are needed ( and busy ) bringing stranded Germans back from all corners of the world, this on behalf of the government. a position which will go on for a while. Temporary ownership by the government is seriously considered, not to make them a state owned airline on the long run, but to sell it when the dust has settled.
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Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
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After Air Berlin's and Germania's demise not much is left on the german market outside of the Lufthansa Group pool of airlines. Especially if you look to Frankfurt. This is why the government tries to keep separate players alive. TUI is another one.
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
(Post 10736566)
Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
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Thomas Cook Aviation a sister company to Condor has now gone into administration. Nobody really knows what the future holds. But you would have to be pretty optimistic to think that there will be much of a summer season for the charter operators. There may not be many German airlines left outside the LH group. But Easyjet and Ryanair employ a lot of German pilots and were certainly filling the space left by the demise of other operators.
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
(Post 10736566)
Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
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Originally Posted by BEA 71
(Post 10736540)
krismiller -Temporary ownership by the government is seriously considered, not to make them a state owned airline on the long run, but to sell it when the dust has settled.
What about Vapiano? The government should take them too. I am sorry for the guys, its no fun to loose a job in aviation right now, but I don't think Condor has an actual chance to survive. |
Originally Posted by EAM
(Post 10738302)
Very unlikely, they already struggled to find someone to buy Condor last year, now who's gonna buy them after all this? Then as well, what about Thomas Cook Aviation, why will they not be taken over by the government, Sundair the same. Local business only get support if they haven't been in trouble before. Condor couldn't and still cannot survive on its own and the same rules have to be applied to everybody.
What about Vapiano? The government should take them too. I am sorry for the guys, its no fun to loose a job in aviation right now, but I don't think Condor has an actual chance to survive. Just in the news now is that the German gvmt is in talks with Lufthansa for a rescue package or state stake. |
German state will take over Condor, then merge it with Lufthansa.
You read it here first. |
Possible. LH owned Condor for many years before TC and such.
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Originally Posted by foxcharliep2
(Post 10738390)
While Vapiano is a bad example - fast food chain -
So who would invest in Condor after this crises and completely renew their fleet. But after LTU disappeared, it would of course be very sad to see an other big name disappearing. |
There seems to be enough travel demand in Germany for more than one airline. And given that Frankfurt airport is the country's biggest work location by headcount, even more than Volkswagen's Wolfsburg main site, it is understandable that the government tries to keep jobs there and assists with bridging loans and such.
Having said that it seems that stock minded companies don't keep enough reserves for bad times while happily paying dividends and boni to their management in good ones these days. |
Seems to be correct, but germans don't want to spent lots of money on their vacation, or anything else, everything has to be cheap.
That is why Condor is in trouble instead of making lots of money, specially after AirBerlin went bust ,for the (almost) the same reason. |
Not true. Most package holidays are now middle class priced and above. Look at Germany's wealthy retired crowd. Traveling like there is no tomorrow.
And they do spend quite a bit on new cars as well. They must be SUV's these days. |
https://www.air101.co.uk/2020/04/tho...p_Qwc.linkedin
Thomas cook aviation consisted of about 15% of Condors fleet. Total of 6 aircraft and Condor has a total of 53. One of the last vestigates of the Thomas Cook came crashing down this week when Condor - the German sideline of the group, rescued by Thomas Cooks German management cancelled its leasing deal with Thomas Cook Aviation. Thomas Cook Aviation, based in Oberursel, Hesse, was formerly known as Air Berlin Aeronautics, a subsidiary Air Berlin, it became known as Air Berlin Aviation, until Air Berlin went bankrupt. It was rescued from the mire by the Thomas Cook Group in 2018. It flew a small fleet of six Airbus A320s and A321s all on behalf of Condor and sporting its livery. The contract with Condor was in effect until the end of December 2021 and should have been safe, however, with the ongoing coronavirus COVID-19 crisis Condor was forced to ground most of its aircraft. It used its own fleet to operate limited repatriation flights, which left Thomas Cook Aviation's aircraft sitting on the ground, doing nothing other than costing Condor money. "For this reason, like many other airlines, we had to terminate the contract with the seasonal partner airline Thomas Cook Aviation, among other things, to reduce costs," a spokesperson for Condor said. |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10739719)
Not true. Most package holidays are now middle class priced and above. Look at Germany's wealthy retired crowd. Traveling like there is no tomorrow.
And they do spend quite a bit on new cars as well. They must be SUV's these days. company pension, to which they also contributed. In addition the state has supported the building up of savings, People have life insurance which is paid out at retirement. In case that both, husband and wife, have worked, this builds up. The " wealthy " did not get it for free. But there is another very important factor - the majority of people live in rented appartements, and never had downpayments, and therefore were able to save money for their retirement. Money, they now spend. As for cheap travel - I have just spent three days in Athens, and was lucky to book a discount fare with Aegean. For transportation and accomodation I spent almost 500 Euro, I do not consider this being cheap. |
You seem to prove my point. Being able to spend money for travel.
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Latest news is that LOT – unsurprisingly – wants to drop out of the deal and is making demands now to step away in favour of a potential investor.
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Government’s loan is due the day after tomorrow, so time to come up with a solution.
Probably going to be nationalized, at least temporary. |
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