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-   -   If not birds then it's insects (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/628913-if-not-birds-then-its-insects.html)

Longtimer 16th Jan 2020 18:56

If not birds then it's insects
 
  • Found on another site:
  • 1. Approach no. 1, hit cloud of locusts, obscured windshield, went around, climbed to 8500, depressurized, opened flight deck window, cleaned window.
2. Approach no. 2, hit cloud of locusts, obscured windshield, went around, climbed to 8500, depressurized, opened flight deck window, cleaned window.

3. Diverted.


details and pics at av herald. http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4d1de8cc&opt=0

Lord Farringdon 17th Jan 2020 08:12

I would have had another crack. I mean what is the chance of hitting a cloud locusts on the third attempt eh? It's just like betting on red in roulette. Mind you, roulette hasn't been my strong suite either :(,


aox 17th Jan 2020 10:05


Originally Posted by Lord Farringdon (Post 10665143)
I would have had another crack. I mean what is the chance of hitting a cloud locusts on the third attempt eh? It's just like betting on red in roulette. Mind you, roulette hasn't been my strong suite either :(,

I believe there is betting hypothesis based on doubling the stake after each successive loss.



Bergerie1 17th Jan 2020 10:11

Locust clouds can be rather large. A desert locust swarm can be 460 square miles in size and pack between 40 and 80 million locusts into less than half a square mile. See here:-
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...group/locusts/

rushestoo 17th Jan 2020 23:28

I think this belongs in "you know you're in Africa when...."

pineteam 18th Jan 2020 09:17

Can you close an open cockpit window in flight on the 737?

Bergerie1 18th Jan 2020 11:21

You could both open and close the DV window on a 707 - same mechanism and shape as the 737. I've done it so I know, and that was at 250kts. But I'm not so sure about being able to wipe the windscreen clean!!

pineteam 18th Jan 2020 13:57

Ok! Thank you Bergerie1! = )

RatherBeFlying 18th Jan 2020 16:50

What about the engines?
 
Obviously the locusts are not as hard on the engines as Canada Geese.

What proportion of the locusts go into the core and how much effect do they have? Obviously the compressor was not clogged and perhaps they raised the EGT.

Extra work for the engineers after landing?

DirtyProp 18th Jan 2020 17:29

So, how to get rid of those pesky bugs? Hey, I've got an idea....

tdracer 18th Jan 2020 18:27


Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying (Post 10666216)
Obviously the locusts are not as hard on the engines as Canada Geese.

What proportion of the locusts go into the core and how much effect do they have? Obviously the compressor was not clogged and perhaps they raised the EGT.

Extra work for the engineers after landing?

Many will centrifuge out and not go into the core (same principle as for heavy rain). The biggest problem with bugs (of any type) is the residue that builds up on the fan and compressor blades - messes up the aero properties and causes a loss of efficiency (hence the recommendations to do a periodic compressor wash).
However, even in a severe case, I can't imagine the impact being more than a few percent loss of efficiency.

gums 18th Jan 2020 19:55

Salute!

Teah, TD , lottsa stuff will bypass the engine core/hp compressor disks.

We had a massive seagull encounter years ago at Myrtle Beach, and the TF-41 fan sent a bunch thru the bypass duct and maybe half a dozen got stuck around the turbine exhaust nozzle and burned to a crisp, heh heh. Fan blades were in bad shape but good enuf for the pilot to get the Sluf back on the ground.

Gums sends...

Takwis 18th Jan 2020 20:33


Originally Posted by Bergerie1 (Post 10666028)
You could both open and close the DV window on a 707 - same mechanism and shape as the 737. I've done it so I know, and that was at 250kts. But I'm not so sure about being able to wipe the windscreen clean!!

I've done it many times on both airplanes (well, KC-135 instead of a real 707). Wind resistance to closing is negligible. I didn't put my hand outside, though! I think maybe slowing, with some flaps down, would reduce the risk of losing an arm, considerably ;)

Check Airman 19th Jan 2020 04:57

How does one clean the cockpit windows in flight?

MechEngr 19th Jan 2020 13:40


Originally Posted by Check Airman (Post 10666545)
How does one clean the cockpit windows in flight?

Lose at rock-paper-scissors.

CRayner 19th Jan 2020 16:08


Originally Posted by Check Airman (Post 10666545)
How does one clean the cockpit windows in flight?

Long handled heavy duty squeegee. And a glove. Id definitely wear a glove. Probably should dump cabin pressure first.

Pilot DAR 19th Jan 2020 23:57


You could both open and close the DV window on a 707 - same mechanism and shape as the 737. I've done it so I know, and that was at 250kts. But I'm not so sure about being able to wipe the windscreen clean!!
I expect that it's a design hold over from the old requirement of CAR 4b: (my bold)


(b) Precipitation conditions. (1) Means shall be
provided for maintaining a sufficient portion of the
windshield clear
so that both pilots are afforded a
sufficiently extensive view along the flight path in all
normal flight attitudes of the airplane. Such means shall be
designed to function under the following conditions
without continuous attention on the part of the crew:
(i) In heavy rain at speeds up to 1.6 Vs1, flaps
retracted,
(ii) In the most severe icing conditions for which
approval of the airplane is desired.
(2) In addition to the means prescribed in
subparagraph (1) of this paragraph at least the first pilot
shall be provided with a window which, when the cabin is
not pressurized, is openable
under the conditions
prescribed in subparagraph (1) of this paragraph, and
which provides the view specified in that subparagraph.
The design shall be such that when the window is opened
sufficient protection from the elements will be provided
against the impairment of the pilot's vision.
I have no experience doing it an an airliner. However, I did hit a swarm of some kind of black bugs while flying my flying boat. I was low down, so it's not so surprising. My only option was to open the side window, and wipe off enough to see to land in the lake I was crossing, and wash them off. Later I went to the beach, and washed off the leading edges of the wings and tail, which were also black!

I had the windshield of a Cessna 310 iced over a long time ago, with no alcohol in the tank. I was able to reach out the parking ticket window, and pry off enough ice to see to land.


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