Orange2fly A320 Alpha floor on approach to Muscat
Would be interested to read the report on this one, to see why the captain elected to continue the approach. Incident: Orange2fly A320 at Muscat on Jan 28th 2019, Alpha Floor on approach at 210 feet AGL For those who don’t speak French, alpha floor is the hard AoA protection. |
And why did he disconnect the A/T in the first place, training? |
Sounds like the Skipper wanted the FO to do a manual thrust landing (in training?) but forgot to remind the FO that the Athr was off when handing over control. Poor old FO probably put his/her hands on the TL's and did what was normal, ie no movement of the levers til reverse idle! You can see how it could happen, but its poor standards whatever the explanation.
|
Originally Posted by macdo
(Post 10624107)
Sounds like the Skipper wanted the FO to do a manual thrust landing (in training?) but forgot to remind the FO that the Athr was off when handing over control. Poor old FO probably put his/her hands on the TL's and did what was normal, ie no movement of the levers til reverse idle! You can see how it could happen, but its poor standards whatever the explanation.
|
Hands on the thrust levers is pointless on the Airbus. It has a lot more value on the aircraft with moving throttles like the Boeing's. Shades of the Korean 777 crash into SFO - exactly what scan was used that never noticed the N1's were at idle and below expected N1's for the approach? What scan was used looking at the speed trend arrow below VLS, then in the zipper, then just prior to achieving ALPHA FLOOR? Aimpoint, airspeed, power has been FLYING 101 forever. It shouldn't change because of autothrottles but the <sad> reality is it has.
|
Or rushed approach so CM1 takes control with AP/AT off. Back on profile CM1 hands over control to CM2 but they forgot to re-engage AT. It’s happened before and it’ll probably happen again. |
Approach is flown in a lateral and vertical profile but also at certain speed. It's not enough to only manage the profiles. In Bangalore A320 crash static thrust levers with no tactile feed back approach was flown at Vapp-27 kts. alpha floor at 135ft simultaneous TOGA selected but crashed as engines were spooling up toTOGA thrust. In SFO moving throttles (which were at idle through out) plenty of feed back the approach was flown at Vapp-30kts. aircraft crashed during late goaround attempt. Whether it's A or B you cannot fly an approach without frequent glances at your speed. If it's not what it should be then get it there yourself.
|
Originally Posted by misd-agin
(Post 10624235)
Hands on the thrust levers is pointless on the Airbus. It has a lot more value on the aircraft with moving throttles like the Boeing's.
|
Unfortunately, this is one of those 'environmental capture' dangers that is inherent to the Airbus. You are used to the TL's being just switches to command the Fadecs at certain phases of flight. So, Take off, Cruise and Landing become switch positions, what the engine is actually doing is being handled by the computers. Generally, I was taught to have hands on the TL's up to V1, below 1500' agl and at any time that the autothrust is off. The last one should remind you that the athr is off because it feels 'odd' or non standard to have your hands on them and requesting PM to do Hdg,MCDU and Alt changes for you. I'm aware of a similar occurrence to this one on the 330, where a break down in situational awareness with athr off resulted in a 'scare'.
|
The great mystery........
why would anyone turn the auto thrust off? |
Originally Posted by 390cruise
(Post 10624713)
The great mystery........
why would anyone turn the auto thrust off? Use it or lose it skill, and having a go in the sim every 6 months doesn't cut it. This incident might, only might, not have happened if the FO had been more familiar with manual thrust flying. |
Fundamental breakdown in MCC - bad enough that the PF let it happen but the PM not monitoring... |
Originally Posted by 390cruise
(Post 10624713)
The great mystery........
why would anyone turn the auto thrust off? |
As it should be. In airlines that mandate SOPs for full time A/T at all times in route flying ( BA for example ,all types except B744)
The crews never fly the aircraft ‘manually, Manual flying defined as manual control of flight path and speed. |
Originally Posted by 390cruise
(Post 10624713)
The great mystery........
why would anyone turn the auto thrust off? Because no pilot hunts for the right power, more, less, more, less, more, less, more, less, than a/t's do in gusty or thermal conditions. Does anyone have stable power criteria in their SOP's for Airbus' with the A/T on? The A/T's do power corrections no pilot is allowed to do using manual thrust, like idle at 350', because it's gotten tired of being 8 kts fast. No pilot would make that drastic an adjustment. s |
Originally Posted by 390cruise
(Post 10624713)
The great mystery........
why would anyone turn the auto thrust off? |
Originally Posted by cwatters
(Post 10625624)
On AVHerald some commentators say moving the TL to idle causes the A/T to disengage. Others disagree. Which is it?
|
Originally Posted by PH-TIM
(Post 10625211)
In my company the policy is: manual flight, manual thrust.
|
Originally Posted by CDRW
(Post 10625729)
A sensible pro-active company.
|
Originally Posted by misd-agin
(Post 10625485)
Manual skill retention.
Because no pilot hunts for the right power, more, less, more, less, more, less, more, less, than a/t's do in gusty or thermal conditions. Does anyone have stable power criteria in their SOP's for Airbus' with the A/T on? The A/T's do power corrections no pilot is allowed to do using manual thrust, like idle at 350', because it's gotten tired of being 8 kts fast. No pilot would make that drastic an adjustment. s |
All times are GMT. The time now is 13:34. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.