Software link suspected in Airbus A220 engine blowouts
Reuters is reporting that A220 engine problems may be related to a recent engine software update.
Exclusive: Software link suspected in Airbus A220 engine blowouts - sources |
Originally Posted by Mark in CA
(Post 10602500)
Reuters is reporting that A220 engine problems may be related to a recent engine software update.
Exclusive: Software link suspected in Airbus A220 engine blowouts - sources |
If true it would be quiet a story... |
To err is human - to really screw up requires software.
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How could software cause that? Does the software patch just allow the engines to run harder so that a new failure mode has been exposed.
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Originally Posted by RickNRoll
(Post 10602749)
How could software cause that? Does the software patch just allow the engines to run harder so that a new failure mode has been exposed.
Pratt has had that problem before - on the PW2000 they came out with some compressor tweaks as part of a performance improvement program. Turns out if you did derated climb, you could get a harmonic in (IIRC) the fifth stage compressor which could cause the blades to fail - interestingly it was only a problem with derated climb - full rated climb it was just fine. |
Originally Posted by RickNRoll
(Post 10602749)
How could software cause that? Does the software patch just allow the engines to run harder so that a new failure mode has been exposed.
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An interim AD was issued today by Transport Canada. It limits the N1 setting in climb above FL290 to no more than 94%. It also limits use of engine anti-ice to no higher than FL350.
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LOL
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Originally Posted by Mark in CA
(Post 10602500)
Reuters is reporting that A220 engine problems may be related to a recent engine software update.
Exclusive: Software link suspected in Airbus A220 engine blowouts - sources |
Originally Posted by Chris2303
(Post 10605434)
If it really is a software update that has caused the problem surely the software can just be rolled back?
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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10605464)
flight critical Level A software and 'open source' don't belong in the same sentence.
Open source software is already used as a basis for (and/or incorporated in) safety critical systems in other industries, including nuclear, medicine, automotive, etc. Why not in aviation? Just because the source is open doesn't mean the process behind it can't be as rigorous (or even more rigorous) than closed source development. If the source code and associated documentation on MCAS had been mirrored to (say) GitHub, maybe someone from the industry or academia could have commented on its flaws before hundreds of people perished. |
First off, there is a great deal of proprietary information contained in FADEC software - how can you make it open source without revealing your trade secrets to your potential competitors? A lot of that information can't even be exported without special licenses (we needed to keep special agreements in place between Boeing and Rolls Royce just to allow us to talk with each other about the engine control s/w).
The flaw in MCAS was it's hazard classification (no worse than Major). Had it been properly identified as potentially Catastrophic, it never would have been implemented the way it was. Or are you suggesting Boeing, Airbus, Pratt, GE, and Rolls provide China (and everyone else) with all the information needed to build state of the art aircraft? |
Originally Posted by futurama
(Post 10605501)
Why not?
Open source software is already used as a basis for (and/or incorporated in) safety critical systems in other industries, including nuclear, medicine, automotive, etc. Why not in aviation? Just because the source is open doesn't mean the process behind it can't be as rigorous (or even more rigorous) than closed source development. If the source code and associated documentation on MCAS had been mirrored to (say) GitHub, maybe someone from the industry or academia could have commented on its flaws before hundreds of people perished. |
Originally Posted by futurama
(Post 10605501)
If the source code and associated documentation on MCAS had been mirrored to (say) GitHub, maybe someone from the industry or academia could have commented on its flaws before hundreds of people perished.
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People tend to contribute to open source software because they personally have a use for it and want to make it better. It is unlikely Bill from Torquay will have anything to contribute to specialist software to control a P&W engine on an A220.
I'm inclined to agree that non pilots and aviation people like myself shouldn't be allowed to post when nonsense suggestions like the above are posted. |
Originally Posted by futurama
(Post 10605501)
Why not?
Open source software is already used as a basis for (and/or incorporated in) safety critical systems in other industries, including nuclear, medicine, automotive, etc. Why not in aviation? Just because the source is open doesn't mean the process behind it can't be as rigorous (or even more rigorous) than closed source development. If the source code and associated documentation on MCAS had been mirrored to (say) GitHub, maybe someone from the industry or academia could have commented on its flaws before hundreds of people perished. I would be horrified at the thought of such critical systems as transport, medicine and others were allowed to cut corners by using Open Source software in key areas. |
Different engine type but FADEC related. Was sent software to update test machine, newly developed diesel engine that I said didn't perform right. Drove a machine up a hill until it stalled, then rolled backward and the engine began running - backward. Downloaded the record of my test and sure enough, running poorly but running backward. Emailed engine group who responded that could never happen but they would look at my data. Hear for months until they finally found time to run on a test stand and confirmed, required mechanical and software changes. Always nice to hear software people say that can't happen.
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After 27 years of the Avro I'm sure Swiss are relaxed about these engine problems. There's half as many :}
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Can any A220 pilot comment on the ramifications of a 94% N1 limit? WRT the anti-ice above FL350: I may have used anti ice in cruise that high twice in 41 years, but I wonder if this engine is susceptible to ice crystal icing? |
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