Highlighting Boeing's resistance/reluctance to be transparent, no wonder other World regulators are looking like giving the MAX a good look over prior to a stamp.
Certainly some pressure needs to be put on the top management at Boeing to change path and stop heading for the cliff, while saying all is well every second day. By the time it comes to the "final test" if you do not know the outcome in advance, it is just another game of cards - this aircraft is not a pioneer, it is using known materials and methods it is not experimenting with cutting edge technology or methods. |
Not a pioneer? It's robot built CFRP-Wing and engines are the latest top technology on the market.
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Surprising how things change with latitude, our beams change stiffness to the third power of height. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) Anyway stiffnesswise even small changes cause large results and it is beyond normal mortal intuition.
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Originally Posted by Bend alot
(Post 10564635)
H- this aircraft is not a pioneer, it is using known materials and methods it is not experimenting with cutting edge technology or methods.
Changing structural elements' material composition and thickness to gain space and weight looks wonderful on paper I am sure. Anyway the key figure we miss here is at what percentage of what ( pressurization or wing bending,) the door failed , if it is close or above to 150% there might be nothing much to write about. I remember the A380 wing failed at 145% , which was , according Airbus : " within 3% of the set 1.5 limit " and therefore deemed acceptable by the regulator . |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10564656)
Not a pioneer? It's robot built CFRP-Wing and engines are the latest top technology on the market.
Wings are not a massive design/construction difference from the 787. Engines (not made by Boeing) have been used as the excuse to delay - Gas turbines are not new, extracting the last % from them is not new either (yes it is very big, but so is the A380). The 777X is not much different to a change from a 737 classic to a 737 NG (hopefully not a MAX) as a comparison. It is simply tweaking current and past technology. After all it is using grandfathering, so a pioneer it is not - just a sibling. The 747 was a pioneer but the A380 was not |
Folding wingtips on the 787? If you go into details technology IS pioneering. That is why the engines have teething troubles.
Admittedly not so much the fuselage. |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10564686)
Folding wingtips IS pioneering.
. The mechanics and materials even design is not new. |
Originally Posted by Bend alot
(Post 10564706)
Certainly for an aircraft designed in the 21st century, exactly the same pioneering level as a moon landings in the 21st century.
The mechanics and materials even design is not new. is now being pressurised to a HIGHER LEVEL to satisfy marketing policy that the cabin alt will be lower, similar to the 787. Somebody here will tell us the pressure differential increase I'm sure. |
Originally Posted by Deepinsider
(Post 10564738)
That's true, But what is new, is that same old design (" The first 777 passed the test no problem (many years ago").
is now being pressurised to a HIGHER LEVEL to satisfy marketing policy that the cabin alt will be lower, similar to the 787. Somebody here will tell us the pressure differential increase I'm sure. |
Originally Posted by Deepinsider
(Post 10564738)
Somebody here will tell us the pressure differential increase I'm sure.
|
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10564758)
The difference between a 6,000' and 8,000' cabin [ISA] is 0.86 psi, so a 150% proof test would require about a 1.3 psi difference.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Deepinsider https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gifSomebody here will tell us the pressure differential increase I'm sure. |
But why are they still doing these test in the first place? I thought the airplane should have been flying already, if it only wasn’t for engine troubles beginning this year? Apparently the tests were overdue already. Boeing is not telling everything here. |
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra
(Post 10564841)
But why are they still doing these test in the first place? I thought the airplane should have been flying already, if it only wasn’t for engine troubles beginning this year? Apparently the tests were overdue already. Boeing is not telling everything here. |
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra
(Post 10564841)
I thought the airplane should have been flying already, if it only wasn’t for engine troubles beginning this year? Apparently the tests were overdue already. Boeing is not telling everything here. The engine delay may have allowed the testing to be rescheduled to fit the extended gap, taking pressure off those doing the testing and allowing more time for fixes if needed. |
...Boeing went on to emphasize that “the testing conditions were well beyond any load expected in commercial service” and that the plane used in the test “will never fly or be used in passenger service.”.. |
Sailvi and SoS, thanks. Glad that there is no reason to be suspicious. |
Originally Posted by Bend alot
(Post 10564673)
The 747 was a pioneer but the A380 was not
|
In regards to the A380:
5000 psi instead of 3000 psi is sort of pioneering, at least in regards to civil airliners. So is gust alleviation by controlling individual aileron panels. |
Folding wingtips on the 787? If you go into details technology IS pioneering. Boeing was so sure airlines would buy it that the first 150 or so aircraft had the mechanism built into the wings. Not a single airline ordered the option. |
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