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-   -   Hard times for Norwegian (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/625175-hard-times-norwegian.html)

Paul737 29th Mar 2020 10:28


Originally Posted by NEDude (Post 10731780)
The "experts" have been saying that for five years. Seriously, CAPA reported that Norwegian was in an unsustainable position in February 2015. Yet Norwegian is still here. Obviously there is something going on behind the scenes that the "experts" are not fully aware of. Yet none of them have acknowledged that yet. I fully agree that things don't look good for them. But clearly there is a lot more to the financial dealing of Norwegian than many are aware of.

You really don't know what is behind the scenes? Scandinavian governments (specially Denmark and Sweden) are tired of injecting money into this company through different shareholders. Is it necessary to remind you that they have made three capital increases in the last half year and? Guess the reason why Denmark and Sweden changed the law about government aid for airlines.

And the most ridiculous and pathetic thing is the campaign they are trying to carry out now claiming it is not fair they only collect money from the Norwegian government under strict conditions. Pathetic!

SaulGoodman 29th Mar 2020 10:55

NEDude, maybe, but if my government would choose to invest in a unhealthy company using mostly foreign contractors I would be quite pissed off...
Long before corona they were losing money and increasing debts.

FRogge 29th Mar 2020 11:35

They were expecting to be profitable this year (before covid19) and that would have been with MAXes still grounded and substantial part of the 787s as well. Their cost saving program Focus2019 worked very well. So when these hurdles with grounded aircrafts and over ambitious leaders are in the past, it will be a strong company.

These are their arguments why creditors should still have faith in them. We will know during coming weeks/months if they had.

uncle-traveling-matt 29th Mar 2020 11:37


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10731946)
NEDude, maybe, but if my government would choose to invest in a unhealthy company using mostly foreign contractors I would be quite pissed off...
Long before corona they were losing money and increasing debts.

Yes, let us all hope for the demise of Norwegian😂

Paul737 29th Mar 2020 11:40


Originally Posted by FRogge (Post 10731987)
They were expecting to be profitable this year (before covid19) and that would have been with MAXes still grounded and substantial part of the 787s as well. Their cost saving program Focus2019 worked very well. So when these hurdles with grounded aircrafts and over ambitious leaders are in the past, it will be a strong company.

These are their arguments why creditors should still have faith in them. We will know during coming weeks/months if they had.

That is simply not true. At the beginning of the year they said in 2020 they were expecting to have 0 losses. Then suddenly they claimed they were heading to the best summer season ever, but showed no proof of that.

Keep dreaming! Strong company having that huge debt and very little profit margin...

SaulGoodman 29th Mar 2020 11:59


Originally Posted by uncle-traveling-matt (Post 10731990)
Yes, let us all hope for the demise of Norwegian😂

BS! Don’t putt words in my mouth...

Parked 787’s, Max issues and huge debts are not indicators of a very stable and profitable airline. But if the investors see a future in them I wish them all the best. I just do not see a huge government bail out arising. I hope I am wrong. 1000’s of jobless pilots on the market is not good for anyone.

Altostratus 29th Mar 2020 12:49

This is very revealing....

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2020/03...BvaE3E2o.email

uncle-traveling-matt 29th Mar 2020 13:04


Originally Posted by RudderTrimZero (Post 10732059)
...only because of clever accounting and financing involving a bank, which they had a massive share in up until recently.

...and the money arrived from the bank with a black helicopter, and landed on the lawn in front of the HQ in Fornebu.

PeterWeb 30th Mar 2020 23:26


Originally Posted by uncle-traveling-matt (Post 10732072)
...and the money arrived from the bank with a black helicopter, and landed on the lawn in front of the HQ in Fornebu.

Nothing like a global crisis to bring all the chickenshelicopters home.

I, also, hope that most airlines survive this. But it will need a moon-shot both medically and economically to keep this downturn short and sharp because we lost so much time in the early stages.

dcoded 3rd Apr 2020 17:29

Guys, there is an eerie peace and tranquility regarding the situation in Norwegian.
I would expect some kind of press release or statement, but come Friday and dead silence from the HQ.


Paul737 4th Apr 2020 11:34


Originally Posted by dcoded (Post 10738494)
Guys, there is an eerie peace and tranquility regarding the situation in Norwegian.
I would expect some kind of press release or statement, but come Friday and dead silence from the HQ.

The calm before the storm.

And I don’t if this is good or bad: On 23 March 2020, DP Aircraft I (DPA) announced that lease payments due on the 13th of March 2020, from Torskefjorden Leasing Limited (part of the Norwegian group and guaranteed by Norwegian) had not yet been made in respect of either of the two aircraft (LN-LNA and LN-LNB) DPA leases to Norwegian. Further to this announcement, DPA has now announced that DPA is suspending its dividend payments with immediate effect and until further notice.

DPA says that, while discussions are continuing with both Norwegian Air and Norddeutsche Landesbank Girozentrale (on behalf of the lending banks providing debt financing in respect of the two aircraft), the ongoing and open-ended nature of the Covid-19 crisis means that they are unlikely to be concluded in short order. The board is of the view that it is prudent at this time to suspend the payment of dividends and this will give DPA the best possible negotiating position in its discussions with its lenders. The Board says that its priority lies in preserving the long-term financial stability of DPA; and maintaining an appropriate level of liquidity is key to this.


What is true is they are running out of time

RoyHudd 4th Apr 2020 13:55

Expect the lights to be switched off very soon. There will then be a lot of 787's (and 787 jobs) on the market, both likely going cheap. Very sad times for the nice people at Norwegian.

dcoded 4th Apr 2020 18:36


Originally Posted by RoyHudd (Post 10739413)
Expect the lights to be switched off very soon. There will then be a lot of 787's (and 787 jobs) on the market, both likely going cheap. Very sad times for the nice people at Norwegian.

And what do you base that on?
We can all pretty much see the writing on the wall.
Just would be interesting to see what you have to back it up with?

uncle-traveling-matt 4th Apr 2020 21:01


Originally Posted by Paul737 (Post 10739308)
The calm before the storm.

And I don’t if this is good or bad: On 23 March 2020, DP Aircraft I (DPA) announced that lease payments due on the 13th of March 2020, from Torskefjorden Leasing Limited (part of the Norwegian group and guaranteed by Norwegian) had not yet been made in respect of either of the two aircraft (LN-LNA and LN-LNB) DPA leases to Norwegian. Further to this announcement, DPA has now announced that DPA is suspending its dividend payments with immediate effect and until further notice.

DPA says that, while discussions are continuing with both Norwegian Air and Norddeutsche Landesbank Girozentrale (on behalf of the lending banks providing debt financing in respect of the two aircraft), the ongoing and open-ended nature of the Covid-19 crisis means that they are unlikely to be concluded in short order. The board is of the view that it is prudent at this time to suspend the payment of dividends and this will give DPA the best possible negotiating position in its discussions with its lenders. The Board says that its priority lies in preserving the long-term financial stability of DPA; and maintaining an appropriate level of liquidity is key to this.


What is true is they are running out of time

No, it means you are not playing with a full deck.

Anyways, here is a hint from the Financial times UK :

"As many as half of global airlines are seeking rent relief now, according to a note from JPMorgan Chase analysts Jamie Baker and Mark Streeter. They estimate as much as 15 per cent of revenue could disappear this year either with lessors’ blessings, or because airlines default."

"Airlines and lessors are trying to work together because when the crisis lifts, airlines will still need planes, and lessors will still need a return on their assets, Mr Khoo said. Lessors “want their customers to survive, so they’re going to be accommodating”."


procede 4th Apr 2020 21:15

Much like in the real estate business, more important than missing out on payments is the fear of having to reduce the book value of their assets.

ObadiahDogberry 5th Apr 2020 13:10

The fact that it is LNA and LNB (aka LNBroken) that are not being paid for is not a coincidence. Norwegian management has stated that it is their desire to get rid of the -8 models, and those are the two oldest in the fleet, with LNB having been an almost constant headache since entering service.

fruitbat 6th Apr 2020 17:59

https://www.flightglobal.com/strateg...137774.article

“HSBC believes all of the airlines it covers bar Norwegian will survive”

NEDude 7th Apr 2020 09:54

From what it seems like, the people within the Norwegian government who are willing to offer some help for Norwegian, want to do so on the condition that it consolidates its operations to the Scandinavia short-haul markets, with possibly some limited long haul operations to the States or popular holiday areas. The problem with this is that Norwegian is so laden with debt that a smaller airline has zero chance to earn the revenue to ever pay off the debt. Of course as we have seen, even a larger airline will struggle with ever paying it off such massive debt. So management is stuck between a rock and a hard place. IMHO I think we will see Norwegian go bankrupt, and a new Norwegian will emerge with significantly smaller operations.

calypso 7th Apr 2020 13:53

I very much doubt that sub-chartering wide body jets to fly punters from Gatwick to LA for 200 quid while parking brand new 787s for ever waiting for new engines is "The real money maker". Taking punters on holiday to Malaga in 737-800s on the other hand might make a few bob.

Sick 7th Apr 2020 14:19

A key question is which can hold on longer, Norwegian or Virgin. A huge amount of capacity at Gatwick is at jeopardy, TCG gone and will BA return to Gatwick at its former strength? Assuming either Norwegian or Virgin will fold, the survivor when travellers return will likely reap rich rewards.


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