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-   -   Student jumps to their death (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/624145-student-jumps-their-death.html)

Cmon-PullUP 3rd Aug 2019 08:21

If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

Auxtank 3rd Aug 2019 08:40


Originally Posted by Cmon-PullUP (Post 10535547)
If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

There's nothing 'stinky' about it. It's a sad, tragic tale of a young girl - obviously in mental turmoil either due to medication for Malaria or personal crisis - leaping to her death in a desperate state of mind.

It's happened before. It'll happen again.

I remember this particular story well. Similar aircraft.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/...rebeccaallison

"A decorated SAS veteran jumped out of an aircraft and fell 1,500 metres to his death, despite the desperate attempts of his co-pilot to stop him, an inquest was told yesterday.Judith Haig described how she tried in vain to hold on to her friend and business partner, Charles Bruce, when he unbuckled his seatbelt and opened the door of their Cessna 172 Skyhawk as they flew over Oxfordshire on January 8.

As Ms Haig grasped the waistband of his trousers with one hand and tried to control the aircraft with the other, Bruce, 45, pulled away and leapt out of the door, the inquest in Oxford heard."



RIP to both.

Haraka 3rd Aug 2019 09:09

I am in no position to comment on the recent tragedy. I am an Ex PPL Cessna Pilot and have some limited "open door " experience, but also professionally trained not to comment on ongoing investigations . I did , however, have a weird experience some years ago whilst holidaying and doing some diving in Kenya. Not relevant , but odd nevertheless.
In between dives and other fun I was reading "Freefall", a complex autobiography written by an ex soldier , who had issues and was working up hopefully to do a world high altitude free fall record.
I put the book down as a local "ex Rhodie military" friend came up and told me that an old mate of his had just stepped out of a Cessna over the U..K. ,
As the names were different, the penny never dropped and I carried on reading "Freefall". It was some months before I realised that they were one and the same. individual, who had been writing under a nom de plume

double_barrel 3rd Aug 2019 10:03


Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins (Post 10534056)
They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.

Yes, that is very believable. Larium can cause major psychotic events and should never be used by anyone with a history of mental problems.

Airbanda 3rd Aug 2019 10:15

Putting together the different press reports it seems clear than Ms Cutland's health was causing her family serious concern. Several of them suggest the other passenger was a friend or relative accompanying her back to a town or city where a doctor could consider whether she was OK to fly home and/or diagnose treat her condition. All of that seems to be exactly what might be expected if a young student had gone off the rails on a field trip to a remote part of the world.

While it's interesting to contemplate how the door might have opened sufficiently to allow her to fall I don't see any other plausible scenario then that she jumped. Any plot executed on board or anything involving dropping somebody already dead or critically injured would face exactly the same difficulties. It's also clear there have been similar incidents in the past.

Pilot DAR 3rd Aug 2019 12:25


If the pilot had put in a bit of .....
Is a lot to expect of a pilot in a suddenly alarming situation. The pilot's attention would be drawn away from flying to the distressed passenger. Precise flying would not be their priority. Yes, the door being closed can be affected by skidding the plane, this a practiced skill, which most pilots would be unaware of, and had never practiced. On the reverse, it would be very difficult for a pilot to get a person out through the door, if they did not want to go. A person would have to actively squirm out the door to get out. This sad story rings true to me.

capngrog 3rd Aug 2019 15:18

Here are two links to stories about people jumping from airplanes (without parachute) to their deaths. The first story, concerning Christine Pascale, describes a troubled woman with mental problems similar to those suffered by the subject of this thread, Alana Cutland.

Just to add further to the speculation regarding this thread, I think that it would be possible that the pilot of Alana's plane, while reaching/stretching to his right to grab Alana, inadvertently pushed on the right rudder pedal, sending the plane into an unintended skidding right turn. This maneuver would have place the right side of the aircraft "in the lee" of the relative wind, making it easier to open the door. Try to mimic the pilot's body motion while sitting in a chair, or better yet, in the left front seat of a Cessna 182 (or similar). While seated and reaching or stretching to one's right, the geometry of the human body results in a slight extension of the right foot ... at least that's how this aging/aged wrinkled body responds to such motion.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/natio...159590274.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...le1957481.html

Grog

212man 3rd Aug 2019 15:35


On the reverse, it would be very difficult for a pilot to get a person out through the door, if they did not want to go. A person would have to actively squirm out the door to get out. This sad story rings true to me.
​​​​​​Precisely! All these people claiming it would be very hard for her to open the door, and jump herself, are then missing the blindingly obvious fact that it would be impossible for the other two to have forced her out against her will!

A few years ago a Norwegian oil worker being flown onshore by helicopter from a platform, with some mental health issues, suddenly pushed out the pop out window next to him and jumped out at 2,500 ft. These events do happen and they are sudden and catch others by surprise.

JumpJumpJump 3rd Aug 2019 16:59


Originally Posted by Cmon-PullUP (Post 10535547)
If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.

This story has a wrong stink to it.

Whilst the the firm left rudder would put more airflow against the door, Surely the momentum of the passenger would then be towards the right hand door, thus making egress much easier as you would have the weight of the passengers body against the door. I am by no means saying that I am corect as I haven't done even the most basic of calculations for this... However, somebody not trained, or that hasn't thought this through, might well elect to not alter the rudder position as a Leyman's arguement could help or hinder in both circumstances and furthermore, woud have been unliely to even consider this course of action.

We can assume that the max cruising speed of the aircrft would have been around 100 knts, at 3000ft there is a chance that the aircraft was still climbing, as such the speed could have been much lower. With everything inside your car secured and a seatbelt on, the force needed to open the door could be easily simulated on a highway/motorway.... Don't try this if your car door has a suicide hinge (Hinge at the rear of the door).

Spooky 2 3rd Aug 2019 21:59

Hewlett Packard had a shuttle between San Jose, CA and Sacramento, CA back in the late 90's as I recall. They operated this with a Twin Otter. One of their female employees opend the pax door and jumped to her death. The Otter pax door drops down to create a boarding stair as I recall. I would imagine that the airstream pulled this door open quite rapidly. Tragic for those that watched this happen.

bunk exceeder 3rd Aug 2019 22:16

I would think a C182 would be doing around 130 kts. Maybe a little bit more. A 172 does 115 and a 182 is a good bit quicker. And that big door takes a lot pushing.

sitigeltfel 6th Aug 2019 20:03

Her body has been found.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...herts-49257769

Auxtank 6th Aug 2019 20:13


Originally Posted by sitigeltfel (Post 10538494)

May her parents, family and friends take some comfort from this news, and may Alana RIP.

er340790 7th Aug 2019 13:23


They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.
i can certainly second that! Back in the 90s I was scheduled to work in remote areas of Indonesia, followed by India. Both in different malarial zones which both require meds to be taken x weeks before and y weeks after the visit - ergo it was necessary to mix both sets of meds. In less than 2 weeks I genuinely felt I was going round the bend and flushed the lot. Scary.

I too did have a PA-28 door pop open on me. Ironically on a FAA check-flight(!) Worn pins were the cause.

Still - I passed the check-ride. And never did get malaria!

What doesn’t kill kill you makes you stronger! 👍🏻

johngreen 7th Aug 2019 21:44

I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.

This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.

I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.

As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!

Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...

Repos 8th Aug 2019 09:43

I took Larium when on a trip to climb Kilimanjaro in 2001. It had no ill effects but the rep giving the briefing before the first day was quite emphatic that we should not take Larium whilst at altitude as he had seen some people being badly affected and exhibit weird behaviour.

Bend alot 9th Aug 2019 22:19


Originally Posted by johngreen (Post 10539482)
I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.

This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.

I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.

As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!

Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...

Add me also.

A big night out in Cape Town and we missed a dose of the Larium pills, so we did a double dose just before the flight to Malawi - never took another pill.

Kept a supply of Artenam soon after. Never needed it but one guy did, and it worked very well.


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