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-   -   GALILEO down since pm Fri 12/7/19 (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/623540-galileo-down-since-pm-fri-12-7-19-a.html)

pzu 14th Jul 2019 23:46

GALILEO down since pm Fri 12/7/19
 
GALILEO down since pm Fri 12 July

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48985399

👇🏼⛵️⛵️ 🚠🛠🔌


PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)


capngrog 15th Jul 2019 00:21

I think that most users of satellite navigation/positioning systems (SNPS) have no idea of how vulnerable these systems are. So many processes rely on these systems that compromise of, or damage to, these systems would cripple worldwide economies. SNPS are not the only technology vulnerable to accident or fiddling.

Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Grog

FarWest 15th Jul 2019 05:59

Not just your opinion:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...lackett-review

Satellite-derived time and position: Blackett review.

Many of our critical services, from telecommunications to transport, rely on global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) to operate.

This report sets out the findings of a review exploring the UK’s dependency on GNSS. It covers:
  • threats and vulnerabilities
  • sector dependencies (both current and future)
  • mitigations
  • standards and testing
It recommends a number of measures to make critical services more resilient to disruption or loss of GNSS.

Published 30 January 2018

FW

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 15th Jul 2019 06:55

Out with the Dalton Computers chaps...!

kriskross 15th Jul 2019 09:19

And don't forget --- MAPS!!!

Klauss 15th Jul 2019 12:21

Hi,
does anyone have Galileo-based or enabled avionics ?
Effects ?

The Ancient Geek 15th Jul 2019 16:10

Not a problem, the enhanced Galileo accuracy services will not be used until the constellation is complete.
The current Galileo satellites are effectively additional GPS satellites of which there are plenty so not an issue.

ATC Watcher 15th Jul 2019 16:29


The current Galileo satellites are effectively additional GPS satellites
Don't tell this to the GSA/ESA guys they will get mad :E . In fact Gallileo is a lot more than GPS , but that is for another topic.
Fortunately the problem seem to be on the ground, not on the Sats in place .

gearlever 15th Jul 2019 17:31

Constellation Information

atakacs 15th Jul 2019 17:45

Well this is somewhat embarrassing to say the least. What kind of ground issue could lead to such a persistent failure? I'm sure that all systems muss be redundant !? Sure it was still in deployment phase but this warrants further digging...

The Ancient Geek 15th Jul 2019 20:08

Looks like it might be fixed, my receiver reports 6 Galileo satellites in range and green

atakacs 15th Jul 2019 21:22


Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek (Post 10519399)
Looks like it might be fixed, my receiver reports 6 Galileo satellites in range and green

and do you get usable data ?

According to their status page the whole thing is still down

SysDude 15th Jul 2019 23:29

Ground Failure
 

Originally Posted by atakacs (Post 10519304)
Well this is somewhat embarrassing to say the least. What kind of ground issue could lead to such a persistent failure? I'm sure that all systems muss be redundant !? Sure it was still in deployment phase but this warrants further digging...

Any upload that corrupts the spacecraft or payload software, or commands an inadvertent shutdown, is a "ground issue". I suppose that malicious uploads and jamming fall into this category, but I doubt this is the case.

My bet is that a software update broke the constellation.


atakacs 16th Jul 2019 05:41

Well it might be so (software issue) but it any case it seems like a major issue as it is still ongoing. Surprised that it doesn't make more "noise" in the news. After all this was supposed to be a viable alternative to GPS....

esa-aardvark 16th Jul 2019 09:31

This morning my newish cell-phone shows 8 Galileo,
all coloured red, meaning no signal.

atakacs 16th Jul 2019 10:19

Yup

Can't imagine a hardware issue that would not be fixable within 24/48h. Muss be software

esa-aardvark 16th Jul 2019 11:52

Maybe a mis-op, Fucino do have previous form in that area.
Last time it was 'around the world in 80 days' for a certain satellite.

SysDude 16th Jul 2019 15:58


Originally Posted by esa-aardvark (Post 10519814)
This morning my newish cell-phone shows 8 Galileo,
all coloured red, meaning no signal.

Careful with the apps. Some will paint the location on the skymap based on a database, not the actual signals.

I am currently decoding both E1 and E5 telemetry but the usability flags are most likely turned off.

esa-aardvark 16th Jul 2019 17:22

I think the satellite position comes from the almanac.
Signal, however, is usually to be trusted.

SysDude 16th Jul 2019 19:44


Originally Posted by esa-aardvark (Post 10520191)
I think the satellite position comes from the almanac.
Signal, however, is usually to be trusted.

Yes, we are in agreement. The almanac data provides a coarse spacecraft position, while the ephemeris data is finer and includes clock corrections.

Since the telemetry is embedded in the carriers, and I am receiving telemetry fine, this means that the spacecraft and payloads are working.

My bet is that they are needing to update new ephemeris data. Since the onboard oscillators take a long time to stabilize, my guess is that the clocks were reset or turned off for some reason and now need time to stabilize. Once stabilized, the new ephemeris data can be generated and uploaded to the payloads... in effect, a reboot of the constellation.

Then they will set the carrier flags to "usable".



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