PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   Persian Gulf (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/622714-persian-gulf.html)

bhunt95 20th Jun 2019 17:01
Persian Gulf
 
Any airlines been diverting the area because of the heighten rhetoric between US and Iran?

ATC Watcher 20th Jun 2019 20:24
There is a NOTAM from the US : NOTAM KICZ A0015/19, mentioning danger of mis-identification .. there was a 787 pretty close to the missile track when the Global Hawk was shot down. The airspace around is quite complicated , and the Qatari blockade does not help .
ATC is not in a position to help either as this is a purely military/ political issue. The strait of Hormuz is not really a place to overfly in at the moment.

Old Dogs 20th Jun 2019 21:07
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 10498936)
There is a NOTAM from the US : NOTAM KICZ A0015/19, mentioning danger of mis-identification .... .
On both sides.

290 people died when the USA mistakenly shot down Iran Air 655.

jolihokistix 20th Jun 2019 23:14
Not taking sides, but just something to be aware of. Most Arabs prefer to call it the Arabian Gulf. I once witnessed a fight over this at close quarters.

ironbutt57 20th Jun 2019 23:36
Originally Posted by jolihokistix (Post 10499031)
Not taking sides, but just something to be aware of. Most Arabs prefer to call it the Arabian Gulf. I once witnessed a fight over this at close quarters.
one will get called in for a serious tea and bikkies session for referring to it as the "Persian" gulf over a PA....I called it "the Gulf"...raised no hackles with either our Arabic or Persian guests

Wunwing 21st Jun 2019 03:19
I was a pax southbound out of a Gulf airport early this week and copped a 2 hour "slot" delay at a very quiet time of the night.
Maybe there is a problem?
Wunwing

meloz 21st Jun 2019 03:32
Originally Posted by Wunwing (Post 10499104)
I was a pax southbound out of a Gulf airport early this week and copped a 2 hour "slot" delay at a very quiet time of the night.
Maybe there is a problem?
Wunwing
I've had similar delay departing SYZ, same airfield?

MENELAUS 21st Jun 2019 06:10
More likely flow control through Muscat’s airspace as most operators are still avoiding Karachi FIR.

CaptainProp 21st Jun 2019 06:17
Notam A0019/19 was issued at 0148 UTC, June 21st

All US operators are prohibited from entering the Tehran FIR in the area above the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman.

SMT Member 21st Jun 2019 06:23
Traffic over the strait seems pretty normal for a friday morning (screengrab from FR24 taken at 06:20Z)

http://i66.tinypic.com/2a9og9k.png

RAD_ALT_ALIVE 21st Jun 2019 07:01
Sadly for QR, all their ops to destinations east (except PEK, HND and ICN) have no choice but to overfly the Strait of Hormuz. If hostilities break out there, it could mean tough times ahead for the Qatari Flag Carrier too; there are no other economically viable routes for them to use to get to those places.

Their only hope would be for a snappy resolution to the blockade.

The AvgasDinosaur 21st Jun 2019 07:03
One hopes they are all diligently monitoring military guard, as requested a short while ago by USN.
Stay safe
David

dr dre 21st Jun 2019 07:11
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur (Post 10499196)
One hopes they are all diligently monitoring military guard, as requested a short while ago by USN.
Stay safe
David
That wouldn't do much good. Iranair 655 was monitoring guard, weren't they?

Maybe it should be the responsibility of armed forces to not "misidentify" aircraft in areas with high civilian traffic?

The AvgasDinosaur 21st Jun 2019 07:29
I admit I don’t know I wasn’t there.i believe the Airbus crew were actually monitoring closely ‘civil guard’ Their aircraft was not equipped to monitor military guard.
As I understood the situation.
Be lucky
David

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 08:11
Originally Posted by CaptainProp (Post 10499169)
Notam A0019/19 was issued at 0148 UTC, June 21st

All US operators are prohibited from entering the Tehran FIR in the area above the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman.

Precedent would suggest that many other non-US operators will also observe the restriction, even though not bound by it.

Other than Qatar and Gulf Air, there's not much evidence of other carriers currently transitting the Tehran FIR.

compressor stall 21st Jun 2019 08:56
Other than Qatar and Gulf Air, there's not much evidence of other carriers currently transitting the Tehran FIR.
huh? Right now as at 0856Z well there's Bangladesh, Indian, Singapore, Etihad, Kuwait, Malaysia, Turkish, Aeroflot, Eurowings...

On Track 21st Jun 2019 09:22
Just heard on the news that Qantas are avoiding the area.

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 09:43
Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10499301)
huh? Right now as at 0856Z well there's Bangladesh, Indian, Singapore, Etihad, Kuwait, Malaysia, Turkish, Aeroflot, Eurowings...
Well if there was, it all seems to have disappeared again. :O

Though there's certainly a bunch of traffic skirting the southern edge of OIIX, including several of the carriers you mention.

WingNut60 21st Jun 2019 10:26
Originally Posted by On Track (Post 10499329)
Just heard on the news that Qantas are avoiding the area.
Might make their PER - LHR 787 non-stop a bit tricky

bill fly 21st Jun 2019 10:39
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur (Post 10499223)
I admit I don’t know I wasn’t there.i believe the Airbus crew were actually monitoring closely ‘civil guard’ Their aircraft was not equipped to monitor military guard.
As I understood the situation.
Be lucky
David
About 50 years or so ago I was taught that 121.5 being a half frequency of 243 was a design feature in the hopes that an emergency transmission harmonic would break through. These days, with filters etc. that might not happen.

compressor stall 21st Jun 2019 11:05
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10499347)
Well if there was, it all seems to have disappeared again. :O.
Hit refresh :) A bunch of Air India, KLM, Turkish, Thai, BA, Azerbaijan and finally a Swiss approaching now. What is of notable is that BA avoids all of Pakistan - whereas Air India Thai etc miss most of it, except the western part - crossing the Pakistan coast heading north via P518 to PG thence west. A long detour from New Delhi!

bill fly 21st Jun 2019 11:12
Originally Posted by jolihokistix (Post 10499031)
Not taking sides, but just something to be aware of. Most Arabs prefer to call it the Arabian Gulf. I once witnessed a fight over this at close quarters.
All this political correctness leads to things like: ...whose student then goes on to kill themselves... in another thread.
Now in the days of the British Empire it was the Persian Gulf, not because it belonged to Persia but because it made geographical sense.
Maybe after Brexit these things will get straightened out.

(Note that this is tongue in cheek please Boris)

dr dre 21st Jun 2019 11:45
Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10499391)
Might make their PER - LHR 787 non-stop a bit tricky
Just a short detour over Oman, Saudi and UAE airspace

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 12:11
Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10499431)
Hit refresh :) A bunch of Air India, KLM, Turkish, Thai, BA, Azerbaijan and finally a Swiss approaching now.
Well they all seem to have disappeared again - and BA198, for example, certainly didn't fly through the Tehran FIR (BA has announced that it will also observe the FAA restriction).

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1645aad0c0.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5dae11b815.jpg

compressor stall 21st Jun 2019 13:36
I was looking at BA256 that was then over Iran - currently over the Black Sea. .

Swiss 181 just leaving to the NW and Singapore 326 near Tehran atm.

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 13:52
Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10499592)
I was looking at BA256 that was then over Iran - currently over the Black Sea. .

Swiss 181 just leaving to the NW and Singapore 326 near Tehran atm.
All of those flights overflew mainland Iran and not the restricted/NOTAM'd area.

Longtimer 21st Jun 2019 14:23
US-Iran tensions: UAE-based airlines Emirates, Fly Dubai, Etihad and Air Arabia reroute flights EFriday, June 21, 2019
US-Iran tensions: UAE-based airlines Emirates, Fly Dubai, Etihad and Air Arabia reroute flights https://gulfnews.com/uae/us-iran-ten....1561112146194

compressor stall 21st Jun 2019 14:26
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10499608)
All of those flights overflew mainland Iran and not the restricted/NOTAM'd area.
I thought we were talking about avoiding OIIX in total as per post 15? Anyway, no biggy in the grand scheme of things. que sera sera.

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 15:09
Ah, hence the confusion. Here's the NOTAM:

ALL FLIGHT OPERATIONS IN THE OVERWATER AREA OF THE TEHRAN FLIGHT INFORMATION REGION (FIR) (OIIX) ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND GULF OF OMAN ONLY ARE PROHIBITED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE DUE TO HEIGHTENED MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND INCREASED POLITICAL TENSIONS IN THE REGION, WHICH PRESENT AN INADVERTENT RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION OPERATIONS AND POTENTIAL FOR MISCALCULATION OR MIS-IDENTIFICATION.
I guess the logic is that any potentially trigger-happy units are likely to be afloat or on the coast. Hopefully there aren't any.

OldnGrounded 21st Jun 2019 16:21
Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10499205)
That wouldn't do much good. Iranair 655 was monitoring guard, weren't they?

Maybe it should be the responsibility of armed forces to not "misidentify" aircraft in areas with high civilian traffic?
Indeed. From the Wayback Machine, some illuminating reading about the Vincennes and the lead-up to the Iranair 655 shoot-down:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060527...02/20note.html

bhunt95 22nd Jun 2019 01:51
Does Iran earn fees when airlines fly over their territory?

Dee Vee 22nd Jun 2019 02:37
Originally Posted by OldnGrounded (Post 10499778)
Indeed. From the Wayback Machine, some illuminating reading about the Vincennes and the lead-up to the Iranair 655 shoot-down:
Interesting that they were 18 miles - 20 miles away from the USS Vincennes when it originally decided to launch its missiles at the Iranian civilian aircraft broadcasting it was civilian.

Do US drones identify themselves via transponder? Presumably the US drone didn't respond to any messages to veer away from Iranian air space?? /s :)

goeasy 22nd Jun 2019 05:20
Originally Posted by bhunt95 (Post 10500083)
Does Iran earn fees when airlines fly over their territory?
yes... all countries do. Called navigation charges.

dr dre 22nd Jun 2019 07:32
As of 0724z major carriers over Iranian airspace include KLM, Lufthansa, Singapore, Finnair, Etihad and Qatar. It looks like most of them are avoiding the Gulf/Strait of Hormuz coastline region of the country, except for Qatar, probably due fuel constraints.

DaveReidUK 22nd Jun 2019 07:52
Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10500183)
As of 0724z major carriers over Iranian airspace include KLM, Lufthansa, Singapore, Finnair, Etihad and Qatar. It looks like most of them are avoiding the Gulf/Strait of Hormuz coastline region of the country, except for Qatar, probably due fuel constraints.
British Airways, KLM and Lufthansa among airlines to avoid Iran-controlled Gulf airspace

dr dre 22nd Jun 2019 08:01
They may just be avoiding the specific area around the Strait of Hormuz, but aircraft from the aforementioned carriers at the moment are in the Tehran FIR over Iranian territory.

DaveReidUK 22nd Jun 2019 08:18
Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10500203)
They may just be avoiding the specific area around the Strait of Hormuz, but aircraft from the aforementioned carriers at the moment are in the Tehran FIR over Iranian territory.
Yes, as discussed earlier in the thread (see my previous post where I quoted the NOTAM).


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:53.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.