Runway material 'liberates' during take off roll, severely damages aircraft
 

This is crazy.....

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8e00cb3438.jpg


Air India Airbus A321 (VT-PPN) still sits at Hyderabad Airport, India since it got punctured and severely damaged by loose parts of the runway surface during take-off at Tirupati on 2019-01-29. It still is awaiting repairs.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...campaign=cppst

Hmmm, I'm surprised to read that the rudder was damaged. I can certainly imagine the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer being damaged, but the rudder?

The damage looks kind of high up on the side to be debris damage, and is that forward fuselage, rather than aft?

Runways have been damaged by jet blast before:

I agree that the damage looks pretty high up on the side of the fuselage to have been caused by Foreign Object Damage from the runway surface. It appears that the photo of the damage is of the left side aft fuselage area, with the left wing root fairing appearing in the lower left side of the photograph. At first, I thought that the damage photo showed the forward right side of the fuselage, but, had that been the case, the bottom sill of the R-2 door would be visible just below the fuselage waterline striping. It looks like repairs (paint removal, surface grinding etc.) have already been started. A repair to a puncture of the outer skin, depending on its location relative to fuselage stringers, rings etc., could be quite complicated (expensive). It would be nice to see a photo of the condition of the runway surface.

Cheers,
Grog

Was this aircraft damaged whilst lining up behind another that was departing and being caught in the debris blast?

Underside of the horizontal stabilizer

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....626a7a85a9.jpg

That, I believe....

a senior pilot stated the engine ingested pieces of the runway...that is how it go so far up on the fuselage....

must have missed all the blades before passing out the exhaust

And yet they still took off and continued to Hyderabad? :ooh:

They may not have had any knowledge of debris hitting the aft fuselage but through an engine? Highly doubtful.

The engine threw the debris forward during takeoff?

Just speculation here, but perhaps an over rotation resulted in the jet exhaust impinging directly on an already defective runway surface? That, coupled with the velocity of the airplane at liftoff, could perhaps explain the degree of damage to the under side of the left horizontal stabilizer and elevator.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Grog

Usual silly opinions. The engines could not have ingested anything from their own exhaust jets. Physically impossible with take-off thrust.

And I witnessed the same thing at MAN, holding to take-off on 23L. A 321 threw some large chunks of concrete rearwards, we reported it, the runway was hastily inspected and then (obviously) closed. We eventually were cleared to taxi gently around the damaged area, and took our place at the back of the big queue for 23R. Having burned a fair amount of fuel...anyway...this can happen anywhere but is particularly likely at crap airports.

At rotation?
 

Hi
Anyone that wants to study Aerodynamics 101, just go to an airport on a rainy day and You will find that there is lots of action and interaction behind the engine , the wing, the tire, and fuselage, at rotation.
Nasty stuff if You now add chunks of tarmac and a good crosswind!
Happy Landings
Cpt B

Speaking of silly responses.

First off, the post was not my opinion, it was a statement in the press, in its entirety, from an Air India Sr Pilot.

Second, guess you have never seen a -200 with a gravel kit? Not only a vortex generator on the cowling blowing compressed air to prevent the engine from sucking up gravel, but also fenders on the front gear to prevent from kicking gravel up into the engine.....

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8168e83244.jpg

That damage to the fuselage is right behind the wing box and upwards of the gear...yet that was caused by the gear or engine exhaust ???

Vortex Generators?
 

It's my understanding that the inlet devices are intended to prevent vortices that could vacuum gravel.

Correct.

Unpaved Strip Kit

In the photograph posted, it appears to me that the leading edge of the wing root fairing is visible at the extreme left of the photo. Would that not make it the forward part of the fuselage appearing to be damaged?

No, you're looking at the trailing edge:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4606188a86.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8462005a47.jpg

If the damage photo was the forward stbd side, you would be able to see the R2 door (and not the registration).

I agree, but I missed your point that the registration is almost always on the aft section of the fuselage. See Post #3.

Cheers,
Grog

Capngrog
 

Thanks for the pictures.
The old 1000 words worth.
Could a brisk left xwind help make this damage, me wonders?

And DAR
I also struggled with the first picture and the many excellent theories, until the kid in me said : " But , Dude the registration is surely aft on most aircraft!?"
To witch he was promptly asked to mind his own business and drink his beer! Eh!
Cheers
Cpt B

Yup, I stand informed! It makes much more sense in context! That damage sure is high up the fuselage side though!

Reminds me of Holguín (Cuba). Years ago company MD11 blew a large hole in the runway upon rotation, destination Europe.(not the hole:)) . We had just landed, back at the pool received a roster revision, 1 day became a 7 day layover, runway(the only 1) closed. Not a bad place to spend a week doing...
*

Which would explain the pilots statement that the engines ingested pavement.

Really, you guys want to argue vortex generator vs vortex dissipator????

How about, it was responding to a post that said engines cant suck up pavement.....

Jeeez.

(on a side note, its called a tail number.....)

It is indeed, sugesting that it was debris kicked up by the left MLG rather than ingested/ejected by an engine.

I vividly recall seeing a RAF Tristar shred a layer of tarmac out of the Bangor, Maine runway! This occurred at rotation and left a large, but not particularly deep hole, in the top layer of tarmac, neatly exposing an earlier runway tarmac layer below.

Actually, I beg to differ - this is an aircraft registration. Tail numbers are more commonly associated with military aircraft, and the term is well-used, for example, in the USA military because the aircraft identification is a number and is almost always on the tail (fin) of the aircraft.

Tail number is synonymous with registration number.
On civilian aircraft tail number refers to the registration number.
On Military aircraft, tail number is the serial number.

Examples: https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/ https://aviation-edge.com/aircraft-r...mber-database/

and please...dont beg.

The empennage also known as the tail or tail assembly, is a structure at the rear of an aircraft that provides stability during flight, in a way similar to the feathers on an arrow.

Not always. EASA gliders (and yes gliders are aircraft) with markings in compliance with EU regulation 1592/2002 carry the REGISTRATION on each side of the fusalage and under one (port) wing. The fin may be used for markings chosen by the operator. For gliders it may be the last three letters of the registration but is commonly a competition number that is a numeric or alpha numeric sequence allocated by the gliding movement and bears no relationship whatsoever to the registration.

See also UK CAA CAP 523.

Yeah nah - when I worked for CPAir (many years ago) the registration was C-xxxx but the DC10s had tail numbers in the 9xx series

http://bp1.blogger.com/_AvpKXiHeVcA/.../dc10chart.jpg

In the early 1990s a PW 4060 powered 767-300 was damaged by flying asphalt pavement during an engine run-up at Schiphol-East. The damage to the aft fuselage and horizontal stabilizer was extensive and a new stabilizer was even flown in from Seattle and exchanged for the damaged one. In this case it was evidently not from pavement material thrown up by the landing gear, as the aircraft was stationary.

On June 4th, 1989, a CF6-50 powered 747-200 was a decidedly uncommon replacement for a DC-10 to Heraklion Airport, Crete, Greece. Landing as well as take-off were on 09, necessitating for take-off a backtrack towards the otherwise generally overflown western runway end with a 180 deg turn on the turning pan.
The airport was normally only used by smaller aircraft types with less than 4 engines. After take-off a huge rising column of dust was observed, a kind of dirty thermal, and the next airplane landing reported a lot of loose pavement material and damaged runway lights. The runway was subsequently closed for some time, and a shorter crosswind runway was opened for those who could accept it instead of diverting.

The 747 was not scheduled there again. But no airframe damage was reported (as far as I know). In this case, the outboard engines may have swept up loose stuff from the pavement edges, i.e. outside the path of the stabilizer, and the inner engines, well, those were blowing on ground frequented by two- and three-holers!

Trial of new brick stacking machine for those in the building trades. We had a thread somewhere here. Pavers are deemed OK, I guess how it's accomplished is the question.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f17d63cc3a.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3d74a61079.jpg

Are you kidding me?!! Running up in a ramp area of paving blocks?!! Who thought that one up?

Cheers,
Grog

Early 90's a Monarch 733, departing to MAH. The crew only found out when they did their walkaround at destination that the leading edge of the tailplane was battered and had blocks lodged in it. Thing with block paving - once one block is liberated, the rest will quickly follow. Luton had just block paved their turning circle.