787 Dreamliner production concerns
Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet
New York Times reporting on shoddy production and weak oversight at Boeing's South Carolina plant that have threatened to compromise safety.of 787 Dreamliner aircraft. Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. Workers have filed nearly a dozen whistle-blower claims and safety complaints with federal regulators, describing issues like defective manufacturing, debris left on planes and pressure to not report violations. Others have sued Boeing, saying they were retaliated against for flagging manufacturing mistakes. Joseph Clayton, a technician at the North Charleston plant, one of two facilities where the Dreamliner is built, said he routinely found debris dangerously close to wiring beneath cockpits. “I’ve told my wife that I never plan to fly on it,” he said. “It’s just a safety issue.” |
Not good. Most of it reported by Aljazeera several years ago - nice to see the NYT catching up. I find the emphasis in the article on non-unionised South Carolina vs. unionised Washington employees misplaced. Although interesting to see Qatar placing great stock in it ;-) Boeing appears to be managed in a tragically misguided manner. At least Airbus cannot be accused of being profit driven ! |
Originally Posted by Clipper7
(Post 10452101)
Not good. Most of it reported by Aljazeera several years ago - nice to see the NYT catching up. I was going to say the same :) Most poignant is the bit where the factory workers on the production line say they wouldn't fly on it! |
It appears A350 sales are starting to accelerate and may in fact be an overall better aircraft than the B787. Passenger satisfaction levels for the A350 are greater than the B787. Watch this space !!!
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Originally Posted by B772
(Post 10452306)
It appears A350 sales are starting to accelerate and may in fact be an overall better aircraft than the B787.
Since the beginning of 2017, Boeing has announced 241 net orders for the 787. Since the beginning of 2017, Airbus has announced 72 net orders for the A350. |
I spend between 600-800h a year in the air as pax, vast majority in J or F, and as much as I can assure everyone here that the 787 is the worst product I've flown on in decades, this means squat to the managers that make the decision on what to buy. They base it purely on cost benefit. I am yet to experience the A350 - I've considered taking a detour on one of my next trips just for that purpose, I'm curious whether I perceive the 787 as so crappy just because of its small cabin size and noise level. For pax comfort, the A380 is hard to beat in my view. Spending serious time stuck inside aircraft, what matters to me is noise level, personal space, and lavatories. The 787 has shortcomings in all of those categories, regardless of operator.
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Originally Posted by Clipper7
(Post 10452101)
Not good. Most of it reported by Aljazeera several years ago - nice to see the NYT catching up. Boeing opened the plants to Charleston to get as far away from the Seattle unions as they possibly could. You have to wonder if that comes into play here. |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10452344)
Originally Posted by B772
(Post 10452306)
It appears A350 sales are starting to accelerate and may in fact be an overall better aircraft than the B787. Passenger satisfaction levels for the A350 are greater than the B787. Watch this space !!!
Since the beginning of 2017, Boeing has announced 241 net orders for the 787. Since the beginning of 2017, Airbus has announced 72 net orders for the A350. By the same logic, the B737 sells more aircraft at less than half the price of the B787. Oh wait... |
Unfortunately Boeing's reputation is fast descending into something which may very well irreversible! The 787 battery fires. The 737M control issues. The 777W engine issues. |
Originally Posted by A320ECAM
(Post 10452433)
Unfortunately Boeing's reputation is fast descending into something which may very well irreversible! The 787 battery fires. The 737M control issues. The 777W engine issues. |
You guys forgot to add 787 engine issues. RR’s fault, but still affects Boeing airplanes. |
I find the emphasis in the article on non-unionised South Carolina vs. unionised Washington employees misplaced. |
Sign of the times from the new schools of business. We had a project where the entire budget was blown on project managers and nobody was engaged to do the actual work.
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Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret
(Post 10452518)
On the contrary, I think it's an important point to consider. A non-unionised employee has little scope for whistle-blowing (unless anonymously).
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Originally Posted by Clipper7
(Post 10452557)
It has not been my experience that an employees commitment to safety has depended on which union they belong to, or if they belong to a union. An effective whistle-blowing system is a management issue, not a union issue. |
Whistle blowing just illustrates their safety culture is in the dark ages. Whilst in EASA land the Just Culture concept is imperfect, the concept and generally, it’s execution is light years ahead of the extant safety culture within Boeing. |
It has not been my experience that an employees commitment to safety has depended on which union they belong to, or if they belong to a union. Workers in Everett are hired the same way, the requirements are the same, and work their way through the union ranks. Training by Boeing remains the same at all facilities. It is the same techniques taught to install and fabricate the aircraft. When they stopped accounting for tools was a big step backwards. The memos that were shown by Aljazeera were not specific to South Carolina, but on the Dreamliner production everywhere. The Union is also protecting itself in Everett, but is likely another line of defense. Noting the issues with the AF tankers, those were built and quality control inspection by Boeing Everett and union personnel. I have seen numerous posts here by people finding all kinds of stuff inside wings and fuel tanks..... Production rates for an entire commercial aircraft, more than one a day on some models, is insane. |
Originally Posted by Sidestick_n_Rudder
(Post 10452490)
You guys forgot to add 787 engine issues. RR’s fault, but still affects Boeing airplanes. Much as Boeing (pretending to only be an integrator, and absolving themselves from responsibility for any suppliers product) would like to blame Rolls Royce for the engine issues, they can't escape the fact that THEY put them on the aircraft, and they are ultimately responsible for ensuring they were fit for purpose and would not fail, before making them available an option. It really stinks of the "Race to the bottom" bean counter culture, we see far too much of these days. What next, oh sorry, the Project Manager for that aircraft was only a contractor, so "not our problem" that the aircraft crashed? |
Originally Posted by GordonR_Cape
(Post 10452365)
If brand A sells an aircraft at a capital cost of X, and brand B sells a similar model for 10-20% cheaper, would that account for higher sales, even though the brand A model is "an overall better aircraft"? That seems to be what the comment suggests, not the raw number of sales.
By the same logic, the B737 sells more aircraft at less than half the price of the B787. Oh wait... What I specifically was responding to was this: It appears A350 sales are starting to accelerate BTW, regarding that AlJazeera report, scuttlebutt at the time was that the employee interviews in South Carolina were a hit job orchestrated by the Seattle area machinist union to discredit the non-union workers (several Seattle area machinists were sent to South Carolina to teach the local workers how to do the job, and hence were able to point AlJazeera at disgruntled workers to get the desired story). |
Originally Posted by Clipper7
(Post 10452101)
I find the emphasis in the article on non-unionised South Carolina vs. unionised Washington employees misplaced.
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